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Supreme Cmdr

Behavior Modification 101

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Sounds about like brainwashing. I would think that just forcing a kid to change their outward actions would not necessarily fix the problem inside the kid.

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Any lawyers here? Isnt this illegal?

United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

"Article 5.

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

...

Article 9.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

....

Article 12.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

....

Article 20.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

....

The Convention on the Rights of the Child treaty spells out the basic human rights that children everywhere - without discrimination - have:

the right to survival;

to develop to the fullest;

to protection from harmful influences, abuse and exploitation;

to participate fully in family, cultural and social life.

The owner of that place should be hanged and the parents of those kids lose their custody.

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The way I see it is that you'd have to be one pretty messed up kid for your parents to fork out $40k a year to send you there. It sounds an aweful lot like an army boot camp and I think, ultimately, it actually would be beneficial. In Jamaica you can get away with the strict punishment required to straighten those kids out. Over here being locked up in a Juvenile Detention Facility is no different than being locked in your room for extended periods of time. Incarceration alone teaches nothing... IMO, Tranquility is an extreme and neccessary solution for an extreme situation. Just my 2 pence.

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First off, I find the whole thing insane.

It sounds like brainwashing to the nth degree.

and even if the UN says it is illegal, how are they going to enforce it.

Those with the guns have the power, and the UN is pretty much powerless, as they want everyone else to be.

Yes, I hate the UN, I wish they would pack up their suitcases and leave the US and the US would leave them.

Now, as far as this tranquility is concerned, the guy that runs it sounds like he's on a power trip and has figured out away to get people to pay him for it.

I feel bad for the kids, but at the same time, I feel for the parents too.

Because if the kid is out of control, it is the parents fault, sorry, but that is the way I feel, and to punish the kids like this for the parents failure is insane.

I feel that if a child is not controllable, and does something stupid, the parents should be held responsible, as in the parent and the child go to jail together. Yeah, I am hardcore, so if the parent is gonna send their child off, the parent should be doing the same.

Yeah, I am an @$$hole.

Then again, I have 3 kids, so I feel the same way about myself, if my kids do something moronic, and criminal, I should be held responsible for their actions, just as they should be.

Personal responsibility, what a concept.

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quote:

Because if the kid is out of control, it is the parents fault, sorry, but that is the way I feel, and to punish the kids like this for the parents failure is insane.


I agree with this 100%.

After reading this article on this Tranquility (huh, how ironic) place, the first thing that came to mind was Hitler's famous motto: "The end justifies the means". Ummm, no.

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Heh. I'm 16 years old. I can feel for this.

And I feel pissed.

quote:

Because if the kid is out of control, it is the parents fault, sorry, but that is the way I feel, and to punish the kids like this for the parents failure is insane.

I agree with that as well.

I feel so pissed off after reading that.

You want to make your teenager trust you? Why don't you trust them first? Why don't you at the VERY LEAST respect their rights? Just a little bit?

I agree, incarceration would do nothing better. However, a true attempt to get into the psyche of one of these people would probably reveal something behind it--like parental problems in childhood. Bad kids don't have a rage for no reason. They either grew up to have a vengence, grew up uncaring about morals, or grew up with bad influence. Parental properties.

quote:

Chappuis: "People who say this place is too harsh, they've never had their own troubled kids. If you criticise it you don't know what the hell you are talking about. And if you think you have had experience, then I challenge the success of your experience."

Bullshit. Does he even have any CLUE as to why the kids are troubled in the FIRST PLACE?

Seriously. If I didn't have anything else to do, and if it was possible for me to, I'd open my own center with different ideals. 1) Dealing with an issue isn't simply getting through it and feeling indifferent about it. 2) Trust is hella important. 3) Care is hella important.

When these kids grow up, how the hell are THEIR kids gonna act? I'm almost afraid to know what kinds of influences they'll have on their kids as they grow up.

These people are brainwashed into one way of thinking--cold, emotionless, and uncontemplative. This is cruel and unusual punishment, and it's not even really the child that completely deserves it.

It parallels Plato's Allegory of the Cave. (The Republic, Book 7.) The best solution for people that you believe are lower than you, or are less deserving than you, is to keep them ignorant. This is, if you're pushing for an "ideal" situation--ideal for your intents, not for theirs.

I hate this with a passion. I've always been pissed off at every little thing that people do wrongly to children. Since I was like 8 years old, I've felt strongly about children's rights. IMO, children should have the same rights as adults, in many respects. In this case, they need the right to at the least, choose--the hard way (more traditional counseling, including actual family counseling, or whatever the situation warrants) or throw your childhood away at Tranquility? Seemingly damned both ways (to them), at least giving a choice would help.

I hardly think that shipping your kid out of country, without warning, is very legal at all. And even if it is, it shouldn't. And if not, it's still very wrong.

quote:

I meet a student's aunt visiting from Texas. 'Oh, you would not believe the change in her! It's amazing, the way they change a kid's life. She's so polite now, I wouldn't know her. They all look so happy!'

A song by Usher is playing, and the words burn through the hard Caribbean heat. 'You remind me of a girl that I once knew. See her face whenever I look at you.' The Texan's niece pauses her dancing. As she stoops to take a drink of water, I catch her face, and think she looks like the saddest girl in the world.

"They all look so happy!..."

"She looks like the saddest girl in the world..."

These people know how to be slaves to their parents, how to be slaves to the system they're in. They've learned not to think, not to learn. It makes me sad. (I'm one of those really deep thinking contemplative types.)

Having people highly restricted, punished, tortured, etc. really pisses me off, when the circumstances causing that don't warrant it.

I agree with making the kids better. But I'd rather them not even think about going Tranquility. Shit, just kill the kid instead, if you're gonna force them there. Give them up into adoption or something. Goddamnit. Give them a choice at the very least; you're throwing away their youth like a jail sentence.

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19 months was the record for being in the 'cooler' , held by a girl.

Who for those 19 months spent time with her cheek to the ground, allowed to change posture every 10 minutes and not allowed to speak.

.....

Last time I checked that kind of stuff happened in prisions and POW camps where human rights are constantly violated.

Bottom line for me is: No parent has the right to 'sign off' their kid's human rights. But hey, ill make sure to 'sign off' those parents into slavery .. oh but just for a few years.... if i meet them.

This royally pisses me off. Grrr.

"After reading this article on this Tranquility (huh, how ironic) place, the first thing that came to mind was Hitler's famous motto: "The end justifies the means". Ummm, no."

Oh .. I think you mean the motto that hung over the concentration camps would be more applicable:

"Work will Set you Free"

(nice point system they have.. i bet the Nazis had one too).

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Deeper thought would be to consider how degraded society is that people will pay an administrator of a concentration camp to raise their kids and administer courtesy and values for them. 25-30 years ago nobody would have even dreamed of this for their or anybody elses kids. Has America (and maybe UK) degraded to such a point that we need to export our kids to small countries for re-wiring? Didnt recall anyone mentioning any other people at those places except American kids.

Pretty sad.

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Uhm ... What at testament to the American legal system, that parents would have to resort to this.

quote:

Deeper thought would be to consider how degraded society is that people will pay an administrator of a concentration camp to raise their kids and administer courtesy and values for them. 25-30 years ago nobody would have even dreamed of this for their or anybody elses kids. Has America (and maybe UK) degraded to such a point that we need to export our kids to small countries for re-wiring? Didnt recall anyone mentioning any other people at those places except American kids.

Pretty sad.

Agree completely.

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I read about this a couple of months ago on the darkspace forums. this is just too much to talk about. heh

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Jaguar, I actually agree with you for once

My first thoughts were "this is an extreme way of printing money", "it's the parents whoy should be punished too" and "brainwashing". Who's to say that the kids aquiesce within weeks of getting there, but are kept on longer to get the money out of the parents?

It's totally barabric.

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Hi,

I feel a bit the same as Draeda, these days it seems people don't see the consequences of their actions. And also, I wanted to add something.

The kind of things that happens in such institutions are not rare. They go on daily in almost every mental hospital. When you have a simple disease such as schizophrenia, or something like that, they just drug you and you can be in society, no probem, but as soon as you have anything that is not so easily identifiable, they will use any means neccesary to not cure you, but to break your personality, so they can build something from the pieces that can function in society. This institution simply doesn't try to find out what is wrong first, but just breaks a mind and builds it from the ground up. So, it is not rare at all.

Greetings,

Wouter Dijkslag

P.S. And yes, I speak from experience, my parents put me in a mental hospital for 3 years.

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