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Supreme Cmdr

First Person Mode - Whats wrong/right with it?

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Right but there you can only see the targeted enemy not all the hostiles around. And as you said you may be already dead.

What I was suggesting is to have all hostile targets squared in the FP view when they get at engagement range. When you'll target one you'll have the info on it as it work now.

A sor of 3D position system that will mark the spot where the enemy is on your hud (if he is in sight possibly).

Something like what is done in the latest GHOST RECOn title that have to be launched and in many other military simultation; let's say those of tanks and helicopters mainly.

Dunno if I made myself clear....you know I'm not native english speaker...

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As I said already, the VTT does exactly what you're describing. Its just range limited to 25m.

I can probably just increase that to a reasonable value. (e.g. 1km). But you do realize that with a lot of targets, the fp HUD is going to get cluttered very - very - quickly and it would still be hard to tell who is shooting at you.

[ 01-24-2006, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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OK, I've made some radar related revisions. Gonna work on the fp HUD radar dots at some point. Check the VCF for today's updates.

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quote:


Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

As I said already, the VTT does exactly what you're describing. Its just range limited to 25m.

I can probably just increase that to a reasonable value. (e.g. 1km). But you do realize that with a lot of targets, the fp HUD is going to get cluttered very - very - quickly and it would still be hard to tell who is shooting at you.


It will be hard for sure, but at least you can have someone to shoot to. And this wil serve mostly at the beginning of an engagement as in the middle of the battlefield you're more likely to die soon and it's damned accurate.

If engage range is 1km this will be fine.

This can be possibly implemented for hostiles threats only so that AA defences and other non dangerous enemy targets are not pointed.

Just another thought.

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quote:


Originally posted by DennyMala:

It will be hard for sure, but at least you can have someone to shoot to. And this wil serve mostly at the beginning of an engagement as in the middle of the battlefield you're more likely to die soon and it's damned accurate.

If engage range is 1km this will be fine.


Highly unlikely. Even if you see the VTT for a hostile; all that tells you is where they are located. There is all likelihood that even if you fire at them, that you'd be accurate enough to hit them. Have you actually played fp mode to any great extent?

quote:


This can be possibly implemented for hostiles threats only so that AA defences and other non dangerous enemy targets are not pointed.

Just another thought.


The VTT tech is global and no such distinction can be or will be made.

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No, I haven't played the FP mode exensively.

I just tried some marine scenarios and got to do some fights to get a close idea of it.

I'll get to test it further.

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I always wished that the FPS elements of the game were as fun as Tribes.

When I'm in first person in BC games, er I mean UC, it doesn't feel like I'm controlling a person-- more like I'm just controlling another vehicle. It's not run and gun, point and shoot.

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quote:


Originally posted by Chaoticmass:

When I'm in first person in BC games, er I mean UC, it doesn't feel like I'm controlling a person-- more like I'm just controlling another vehicle. It's not run and gun, point and shoot.


If you ever actually controlled a vehicle in the fp portion of the game, you'd immediately notice just how silly that sounds. Apart from the fact that they use completely different dynamics engines.

The movement speeds in Tribes - like most fps games - is over-exaggerated. I don't plan on doing that in my game. This is not a run and gun game and was never designed to be.

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I anticipated a response along those lines. You always stubbornly stick to your vision, and thats why we love you Seriously, you dont cave in to conforming to what the industry or anyone else says your game should be like. The result is one clear, consistant, unified world. A Battlecruiser game in every aspect.

I stated that I had always wished the FPS elements could be as fun as tribes. Not stating that UC's FPS parts should change into Tribes. The FPS elements in UC are First Person, but they are not a "FPS Game". Just because you step out of your battlecruiser doesn't mean you're not in a battlecruiser game anymore. I know this.

The FPS elements in UC feel wrong. It lacks a fluidity of control and movement and feels more robotic instead of human. Thats what I mean when I say it feels like I'm just controlling another vehicle. I know the goal is to simulate a human with human limitations, and thats what we want from a BC game, but the feel is wrong. It's not totally wrong, or unplayable. I've spent a lot of hours fighting side by side with my marines and had a lot of fun.

Here is an example I can think of right now. I remember in UC you couln't look straight up 90 degrees because a marine looking down the sight of a big rifle would not realistically be able to do that. Thats accurate, but it also hurt the feel-- I know as a person, my head is not locked to the aim of my rifle. If the rifle's aim could be detached from the players head when the head moved out of the aiming range of the rifle, then that little thing would help the feel. Thats just an example, not a specific request.

Playing as a marine in FPS mode feels more like I'm controlling a robot, instead of walking in the marine's boots. Thats not criticizim, but in a perfect world I would want to feel like I was right there on the base, in the rain, with my gun and running for cover behind an ATV while bullets whiz past. Immersion.

When piloting the vehicles/spacecraft I can feel immersed because I can imagine my computer chair is the pilot seat, the keyboard and mouse is my flight controls, my monitor is the viewscreen on the bridge. Immersion in the FPS parts of the game is more tricky, and perhaps thats why you see the exagerated movement and mobility in FPS games-- when you're playing a human, anything that inhibits your ability to look or move around destroys the immersion.

If I could sum up in one word what the current FPS part of the game feels like to me, that word would be "clumsy". Thats it. It feels clumsy. Again, not broken, not unplayable, not boring, not unenjoyable. The FPS part of the game as it is now is probably close to my favorite aspect of the game-- but it could be better.

I'd hate to be in your shoes though, because I cant put my finger on any specific way to improve on the FPS part of the game. Thats probably saying something. There are more things I don't want changed than there are things I want changed, but if the 'feel' and immersion was kept in mind during design decisions in the future, I think the game will benefit.

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quote:


Originally posted by Chaoticmass:

I stated that I had always wished the FPS elements could be
as fun as
tribes.


Considering that no fps - not even the maligned Tribes II - has even come close to that, I doubt that I'd even want to try.

The point of this thread is to identify ways of making the fps aspects of the game feel right for those who say that it doesn't. The plan is not to mimic other dedicated fps games in any way, shape or form because that would be ludicrous indeed.

quote:


Here is an example I can think of right now. I remember in UC you couln't look straight up 90 degrees because a marine looking down the sight of a big rifle would not realistically be able to do that. Thats accurate, but it also hurt the feel-- I know as a person, my head is not locked to the aim of my rifle. If the rifle's aim could be detached from the players head when the head moved out of the aiming range of the rifle, then that little thing would help the feel. Thats just an example, not a specific request.

Please don't post in this thread again. I made it clear that this thread was for owners of UCAWA which the target of this discussion and revision.

If you actually owned a copy of UCAWA - or even UC with the most recent patch - you would know that EVERYTHING you just stated above, is bollocks and not how the game works.

In fact, most games have a separate weapon view which bears no relevance to the rendering of the character itself.

Our game does it the correct way (like most modern fps games) rendering them both. The fp POV that you see in the game is at the character's head. So what you see is 100% accurate. If you want to turn your head without altering where your weapon is pointing, learn how to play the game and refer to the game commands. Its called mouse look. Use it.

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quote:


Originally posted by Prez:

Tribes gameplay in AWA? That would be nice. So would world peace, an end to all poverty, a cure for cancer, and the everlasting light bulb.


LOL!! Yeah, we can all wish right?

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OK, I've been playing the IA0112 scenario using the v1.00.12.02 build. This gave me the idea that if we played and discussed the tactics and the fp aspects using various scenarios, we could better identify what feels wrong, right etc.

atm, I am working on adding the target dots to the fp HUD radar.

Anyway, I think everyone who wants to help in the final direction of this upcoming fp focused patch, should play these scenarios (which I will outline) and then post their thoughts (good, bad, ugly, whatever).

Remember, this is for UCAWA only. If you post in this thread when in fact you don't have the game, I will know about it and you will be temp banned for insurbordination.

My description of how I play these scenarios is based on how they - and the game - were designed to be played. Some people (especially clueless reviews) tend to forget that unlike dedicated fps games, the fp mode in my games are just another feature and which - unlike dedicated fps games - are designed to work within the scope and design of my games. Some people keep thinking that this is supposed to be Doom 3 or similar, tacked on to a predominantly space game.

Nevertheless, since the XBox360 variation of our games is geared toward pure action and less sim elements, some of these revisions in UCAWA will form the basis for a more robust (and console-centric) fps focus. Bah!

IA0112 IA SCENARIO

In this scenario, you are an EFM deployed outside a city with orders to terminate any hostiles located at the city.

You have three teammates, Mace, Wildman, Weksler (the highest AI level teammater) who are escorting you.

Its stormy. Its dark. You probably have no clue. Which, of course, is going to get you killed.

Here is how I play this scenario.

  1. After deployment, my teammates are automatically in escort mode. So I don't have to worry about them for now. Instead, I immediately go prone. Going prone means that enemies which are BVR (Beyond Visual Range) will not pick me up on radar. Bear in mind that depending on the AI of your escorts, they may not immediately follow your [prone] profile. So, you need to move forward a bit, then check them to see if they have complied. If not, don't worry about them, since they're likely to get killed anyway.
  2. Once prone, I fire up Tacops which will immediately zoom to my location. I then zoom out to see the hostile base. After locating the primary and secondary targets, I add them to my priority list by selecting them in Tacops. I then make a mental note of where the other wandering hostiles are, as well as the locations of any mechanised units and bunkers which are likely to launch intercepting marines if we are discovered.
  3. Getting out of Tacops, I cycle the PLV to select the primary (or secondary) target. It will immediately be tied to the T tag outside the HUD map. So, if I start moving toward that direction, I will happen up the target.
  4. Since its pitch dark, I then fire up the DIE/IVM and start running toward the base, stopping (which puts you back in prone) at intervals to spoof hostiles who may have detected us.
  5. To see if we have been detected, I fire up the DIE/TVM, then put it in HMT mode and cycle through the hostiles. If the target for the selected hostile is myself or one of my men, then we have been discovered by that hostile. In which case, we either remain hidden until he 'forgets' or I terminate him first. Detection is propagated amongsts hostiles. So, if one detects you, it is only a matter of time before they all know where you are, regardless of whether or not they see you on radar (their DIE/TVM) or visually.
  6. Moving toward the city, I stop on the outskirts and again scout the vicinity using DIE/IVM. By leaving the DIE in this mode and having a target selected, I only have to press 1 to return to my weapon view or 4 to immediately return to the IVM view. Once I already have a target, I rarely have to use the TVM mode; especially if all desired targets are already in my priority list; in which case I can just cycle through them from my weapon view using the PLV.
  7. The primary and secondary targets are deep inside the city and getting to them means either taking out the wandering patrols or getting killed. So, I start stalking the wandering patrols, making sure that I don't start shooting at a VTT just because it is visible. The target could be behind a building, in which case, the shot won't hit it and the weapons fire will reveal your position. So, using the scope of my XN32, I locate a target and take him out with short bursts. You're not always going to be accurate, so you MUST lead the target if it is moving. If you hit a moving marine, he will be injured and stop momentarily to heal. It is at this point that you have take 2-3 more shots to kill him. Note also that at long distances, the zoom mode of your weapon is less accurate. So, it is unlikely that if you can barely see the target, that putting the crosshair where you think he is, will result in a hit. You have to try aiming slightly above where you think his head would be or to the L/R right of him.
  8. If you are detected by a swarm of marines - especially if a bunker or mechanised unit spots you, you can make a run for it, while stopping, turning around, shooting etc. You can also select your team from the PLV and give each one SAD orders. This will allow them to pick their own targets, while you focus on keeping your butt intact.
  9. If the going gets really tough, after giving the team SAD orders, I steal an APC and take out the bunker and other threat units. If that proves unsuccessful, there is a gunship which I can also steal. The idea is to reduce the number of marines once you have been detected and all hell has broken loose. By taking out mechanized units and bunkers, you reduce the threat of more marines being dispatched to put a bullet in your head.
  10. Once the primary and secondary targets have been eliminated, I then take out other targets of opportunity until the scenario timer elapses.

Thats how I play this scenario. I have lost a man or two every now and then while employing different tactics. But once you get the hang of it, you can complete the scenario without losing any members of your team.

So, there you have it. I need someone who thinks that the feel (or something else) in fp mode is off, to play this scenario using mine or their own tactics and tell me what's wrong with fp mode as it pertains to a scenario such as this. TBH, I can't think of anything.

[ 01-28-2006, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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I've played IA0112 with your tactics in hand. They work pretty good. As far as my first pass at what's wrong with the "feel", I have two observations. First, when I use the IVM view, I have no info displayed. I've lost my tracking(distance) info and I also can't shoot in this view, as I have no crosshairs. When I switch back using #1, I can't see so I don't know where to shoot. Secondly, when I select a target and it's displayed on the HUD map, oftentimes the symbol overlaps the supply station or the DJP. Again, I lose my tracking info because I'm unable to read it if its overlaping. In the midst of a firefight, I don't want to try to figure out how to see this info (I need to concentrate on staying alive). I hope to add more assesments later.

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The IVM is not meant for shooting. Much like you can't shoot while using any of the other views. That DIE is an inventory device (like your weapon) and has its specific uses. While it can still be used as an 'always on' device (which I use in the dark) while you are moving, you can still immediately switch out of it to your weapon view at any time when you see a threat.

If you were looking in the general direction of a target that is visible, it will be visible in the IVM as normal. If you can't see it in the IVM, whether you have a crosshair or not will be irrelevant because you can't shoot at what you can't see.

When targets are plotted in the HUD map, they give you a heading. So, if the target identifier is overlapping something else (e.g. DJP) and they are all pointing in the same general direction, what else do you need? Apart from knowing the general direction that you should be going in.

That would be like saying you have two cars parked across the street. The one you want is behind the first one. You know its there, but you're not happy about it because you want to be able to see both cars at the same time. Ain't gonna happen. Common sense is required here. This is not an arcade game.

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I did the mission as described, and actually managed to succeed in killing the primary and secondary targets with the tactics described (though I lost two guys early). I also played all the other FPS missions a few times.

First, a general thought on how UCAWA's 1st person operates. The main thing that makes UCAWA FPS different from other FPS is the range at which engagements occur. Because we can see infantry on radar far beyond the range where they can engage, there's no surprises about what you're facing. So the question is then, what does it take to line up a shot? I'm often engaging enemies at extreme ranges, sometimes when I can see them, sometimes when I can't, and usually when they're very tiny at whatever range I'm able to see them. If they successfully close, then I'm a bad shot, or there are a lot of them.

I think that anything that can either 1) shorten detection distance for both player and AI), 2) speed up closure rates, or 3) extend one's ability to site an enemy (so they're not so tiny) will improve gameplay.

Some specific thoughts/questions:

Is there some reason why we can't move on a two-axis diagonal (i.e., strafing + forward or backward)?

Vertex Shader Foliage is uniformly high enough to make it difficult to see through unless I'm looking down an incline (and therefore have a height advantage). I wouldn't care about this except it doesn't seem to similarly impede my enemies from seeing and shooting me. I thought UC allowed you to turn this foliage off, but UCAWA doesn't.

I read the part about IVM not being meant for shooting. I get that it's a separate device. On the other hand, it's also true that we have nightvision scopes for snipers now, and our special forces guys who use nightvision can still use their iron sights to shoot while wearing that headgear. Is it out of the question to have nightvision + some form of targeting? If not, then I'm curious about what the bad guys sight distance is in darkness. Are they adversely affected as I am?

The most important problem I've had is being able to tell who's who when an ally and an enemy are of the same marine type and are standing near me: I'm not sure who to shoot since they're indistinguishable! I think Denny was referring to thise earlier, and this comes out mainly in "furballs" where me and a few helpers are in the middle of an enemy engagement and people are running and gunning everywhere. Without there being different skins (or even different tints of the same skin!), there needs to be some quick visual reference when I've got someone in my crosshairs that tells me they're an enemy. (This the fundamental concept behind uniforms in combat I think.)

While zoomed, it is sometimes difficult to track a moving target because (it seems to me) my view is still rotating at the unzoomed rate. If there were a little mouse-smoothing while zoomed, I'd have a much easier time engaging targets at range.

It would be good if there were directional references in the mission briefing text, so I know that my extraction is (for instance) 1.5 km North of the target. Additionally, if there were some way of seeing objectives without getting into the comm screen, I'd feel much safer when I'm double-checking my mission parameters in the midst of my enemies.

Is there some functional purpose to having an image of the weapon I'm holding in my hand in the lower left of the HUD? I can already see the weapon, so I should know what I'm holding.

Is there any way to show range to target (the HUD map "T") on the map display on the top right of the HUD? That would help a LOT when I'm closing with enemies I can't see very well.

I'm not sure the HUD's too busy, but I will say that many FPS have a minimal HUD (or one that fades info in and out as selections are made). In UCAWA, an intermediate info level between no HUD and full HUD, perhaps just containing ammo count, heath, and a crosshair (or some equally minimal amount of info) could be very helpful. The only time I drop the HUD completely is when I am taking a screenshot and need NONE of the functionality, but rarely do I need to see it all. (Could some of the HUD info be toggled on/off per key commands so people could include what they chose?)

Something I remembered as helpful in BF2 (which had been mentioned briefly before) was the notion of being able to distinguish what general direction you've been hit from (which IRL you'd feel the impact from, even if it's not a light from heaven illumining the foul shooter). Just a quick flash or signal on one side of the screen or another would help immensely.

Buildings do not seem to contribute enough as obstacles since they seem to be layed out for air/space interaction. If buildings were more complex (as models) then you could have stairways, alleys, and other kinds of urban terrain that would compress combat distance. Without making the building models more complex, you might accomplish something like that if the buildings themselves were closer together and people were weaving in and out of them, perching on top of them and shooting into smaller lanes, etc. The only people that can really take advantage of battles in cities or bases are the MIM people who can get on roofs and shoot down (which is lots of fun). The other marine types have long walks to get around the buildings, and the space between them are such that sometimes you can't see an enemy on the "other side of the street."

Well, that's a lot of stuff, but I've been at this for a few days since the topic started and I didn't want to post until I'd studied. Hope it's useful.

Edit: I just read the VCF for .12, and I'll be interested in seeing if the changes in the radar ranges and VTT labeling fix much of the "Uniform" problem.

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I spent a good chunk of today playing with the FP mode and I think the patch is a huge step in the right direction. There were some things I noticed while I was playing:

1. Grenades. They don't operate like other weapons. Most other games and the other weapons you press the assigned number to equip the weapon then you press mouse one to fire. Grenades you push the number a second time to throw them. This seems a little unnatural.

2. Right mouse button. Currently just makes your character run or move forward. This seems like a waste. It could be used for alternate fiew for your weapon or to activate the jetpack. a good example of an excelent implementation of the jetpack is Tribes.

3. "/" key operation. Right now it seems tied to the DIE TRS mode. It would be more effective if it ignored the TRS mode and targeted whatever was the closest object in the crosshair.

4. Reloading. This is more of a oddity. If I reload without firing the number of clips I have decreases although no rounds have been expended. If I reload until I have zero clips remaining and then expend that clip, I cannot reload. This eliminates the ability for tactical reloads in combat. If I reload before a clip is fully expended, in effect, I lose the remaining rounds.

5. Run/Strafe. The ability to strafe while running has been a mainstay of FPS games but currently I can't do that. Even the ability to hit strafeto run diagonally would be helpful.

6. Crawl Speed. Providing my calculations are right, I can walk 60m in the game in 24 seconds. I can crawl the same distance in less. Crawling should be the slowest position for movement.

Misc things. the TOM use. would be nice if it didn't freeze the gameplay and didn't cover the crosshairs. Interface seems a bit clunky visually.

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I played some FP with this new version and it's a big improvement IMHO. Now I'm able to engage targets more effectively and survive longer.

Just one little thing that I don't know if it's possible but that would help.

When a target it tagged in your view and the name and distance are shown, the red box is right over the target making impossible for you to see it. If the info box would be placed right above/below the target silouette this will further help; now you can't fire at a marine from a long distance because you can't see him but only guess where his position is.

I'll give a shot at the scenario you pointed out in the other topic and see if I can add something.

Great work.

I just want to say that I fully back Zane's opinion about the night vision thing. Sure the DIE is an inventory item and all the main modes should ramain there (as a modern uplink) but the image enhancement should be available in the main FP view. Otherwise in dark nights you end up shooting without crosshairs from the IMV.

The difficulty in tracking targets when aiming with a high magnification is another thing that is making it difficult as Zane pointed out. The crosshair moves in "large steps" and not is a smooth movement.

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quote:


Originally posted by Zane Marlowe:

I think that anything that can either 1) shorten detection distance for both player and AI), 2) speed up closure rates, or 3) extend one's ability to site an enemy (so they're not so tiny) will improve gameplay.


Neither makes any difference and will only make it more difficult. For one thing, just because an entity is

visible on radar, doesn't mean anything. (1) the detection ranges are just fine and both player and NPCs

are subject to their restrictions (2) speeding up closure rates means making everyone run at inhuman speeds.

Not gonna happen. The speeds are - and will remain - realistic (3) You have an external camera with F10. Use it.

Apart from that, rendering is accurate. If an object is at a distance, it will be tiny. Just like in real life.

Is there some reason why we can't move on a two-axis diagonal (i.e., strafing + forward or backward)?

Yes, because it is not natural movement (when used simultanously) and won't be implemented

Vertex Shader Foliage is uniformly high enough to make it difficult to see through unless I'm looking down an incline (and therefore have a height advantage). I wouldn't care about this except it doesn't seem to similarly impede my enemies from seeing and shooting me. I thought UC allowed you to turn this foliage off, but UCAWA doesn't.

It does impede them because they rely on line-of-sight and radar for target acquisition. Just like you.

I read the part about IVM not being meant for shooting. I get that it's a separate device. On the other hand, it's also true that we have nightvision scopes for snipers now, and our special forces guys who use nightvision can still use their iron sights to shoot while wearing that headgear. Is it out of the question to have nightvision + some form of targeting? If not, then I'm curious about what the bad guys sight distance is in darkness. Are they adversely affected as I am?

It is implemented exactly that way. There is nothing stopping you from firing while using it, is there?

You just don't have the benefit of a sight - which modern military don't have either.

The most important problem I've had is being able to tell who's who when an ally and an enemy are of the same marine type and are standing near me: I'm not sure who to shoot since they're indistinguishable! I think Denny was referring to thise earlier, and this comes out mainly in "furballs" where me and a few helpers are in the middle of an enemy engagement and people are running and gunning everywhere. Without there being different skins (or even different tints of the same skin!), there needs to be some quick visual reference when I've got someone in my crosshairs that tells me they're an enemy. (This the fundamental concept behind uniforms in combat I think.)

The min ranger of the VTT tags has now been reduced from 1km to 1m. If you see a Red VTT tag, shoot it.

While zoomed, it is sometimes difficult to track a moving target because (it seems to me) my view is still rotating at the unzoomed rate. If there were a little mouse-smoothing while zoomed, I'd have a much easier time engaging targets at range.

Thats what happens when you're zoomed in. You lose accuracy. I'm NOT going to discuss what to do if you want to

steady your aim because it has been discussed before. Its also in the manual. Read it.

It would be good if there were directional references in the mission briefing text, so I know that my extraction is (for instance) 1.5 km North of the target.

The mission briefings usually either tell you where your extraction point is or the craft

that is extracting you. In the case of the later, you can locate the craft on

radar. Some other scenarios even deploy a WDU which marks the target of extraction

or similar.

Additionally, if there were some way of seeing objectives without getting into the comm screen, I'd feel much safer when I'm double-checking my mission parameters in the midst of my enemies.

You shouldn't be checking mission params in the midst of enemies. In much the same

way it is a bad time to be filing your nails or doing your taxes.

Is there some functional purpose to having an image of the weapon I'm holding in my hand in the lower left of the HUD? I can already see the weapon, so I should know what I'm holding.

Silly question. Lets move on.

Is there any way to show range to target (the HUD map "T") on the map display on the top right of the HUD? That would help a LOT when I'm closing with enemies I can't see very well.

Its already there. Read the manual.

Something I remembered as helpful in BF2 (which had been mentioned briefly before) was the notion of being able to distinguish what general direction you've been hit from (which IRL you'd feel the impact from, even if it's not a light from heaven illumining the foul shooter). Just a quick flash or signal on one side of the screen or another would help immensely.

We don't have that. 99% of the fps games don't have that. We won't have that. If you've

been hit, the screen will flash Red.

Buildings do not seem to contribute enough as obstacles since they seem to be layed out for air/space interaction. If buildings were more complex (as models) then you could have stairways, alleys, and other kinds of urban terrain that would compress combat distance. Without making the building models more complex, you might accomplish something like that if the buildings themselves were closer together and people were weaving in and out of them, perching on top of them and shooting into smaller lanes, etc. The only people that can really take advantage of battles in cities or bases are the MIM people who can get on roofs and shoot down (which is lots of fun). The other marine types have long walks to get around the buildings, and the space between them are such that sometimes you can't see an enemy on the "other side of the street."

None of this has anything to do with this discussion.

Edit: I just read the VCF for .12, and I'll be interested in seeing if the changes in the radar ranges and VTT labeling fix much of the "Uniform" problem.

You should have tried it before posting....just like I indicated above.

quote:


Originally posted by Eclipse:

1. Grenades. They don't operate like other weapons. Most other games and the other weapons you press the assigned number to equip the weapon then you press mouse one to fire. Grenades you push the number a second time to throw them. This seems a little unnatural.


You don't push the number a second time. The first time is to select it. This is the same

as taking it out of your pocket. It works just fine and won't be revised.

2. Right mouse button. Currently just makes your character run or move forward. This seems like a waste. It could be used for alternate fiew for your weapon or to activate the jetpack. a good example of an excelent implementation of the jetpack is Tribes.

Yeah, I agree; but even if I change it, I don't plan on revising the jetpack usage

because its not tied to just one button.

3. "/" key operation. Right now it seems tied to the DIE TRS mode. It would be more effective if it ignored the TRS mode and targeted whatever was the closest object in the crosshair.

Yes because it is a radar targeting key that is slaved to the current radar mode. There

is no way around that.

4. Reloading. This is more of a oddity. If I reload without firing the number of clips I have decreases although no rounds have been expended. If I reload until I have zero clips remaining and then expend that clip, I cannot reload. This eliminates the ability for tactical reloads in combat. If I reload before a clip is fully expended, in effect, I lose the remaining rounds.

Thats correct. Don't reload if you have a partially full clip because the game

does not - and doesn't need to - keep track of expended clips.

5. Run/Strafe. The ability to strafe while running has been a mainstay of FPS games but currently I can't do that. Even the ability to hit strafeto run diagonally would be helpful.

See my response to Zane.

6. Crawl Speed. Providing my calculations are right, I can walk 60m in the game in 24 seconds. I can crawl the same distance in less. Crawling should be the slowest position for movement.

Yeah, crawling forward uses the same speed as walking forward. I'll look into

changing that at some point so that it is slower.

Misc things. the TOM use. would be nice if it didn't freeze the gameplay and didn't cover the crosshairs. Interface seems a bit clunky visually.

The game runs in real-time and the menus pause some processing in order to make

menu selection easier. It is part of the engine construction and won't be changed.

I don't see how it can be considered 'clunky' just because the game is frozen. Thats

just ludicrous. And it covers the crosshairs because - well - it is displayed at the

center of the screen. You have NO use for the crosshairs when the TOM is active.

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quote:


Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

I don't see how it can be considered 'clunky' just because the game is frozen. Thats

just ludicrous.


sorry, the visually clunky comment doesn't go with the TOM use part. I was refering to the overall visual look of the FP interface in that sentance not the TOM. I guess my writing is visually clunky too

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Compared to this mockup you sent earlier today, I can't see much difference; other than you shrunk everything to the point of being hardly readable and added a fancy graphic scale that is largely useless.

Don't get me wrong, it looks nice, but its not practical.

Just goes to show how people have different ideas on how something should be. Which is why we have very few game designers who actually call the shots. Thank God for that. heh.

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OK, I have added an always-on night vision mode to fp, as well as other subtle revisions. The 1.00.12.03 patch is now on the registration page.

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Just tired this out... I like how things are playing in FP now... but I don't VTT tags that hover over your team or other units. They are extrememly useful for combat awareness but get in the way at ranged combat and occassionally in close combat. Would it be possible to have a one button toggle to turn them off or on? That way we can get the situational awarness we need and then clear them for precision shooting.

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The VTTs are automatic and cannot be controlled via a key. They used to be 1km minimum range but are now 1m minimum.

And I don't see how they can get in the way, since they are deliberately set to hover way above the object.

Of note is that you sent me a mockup with triangular VTTs, but then you're telling me that they get in the way?

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It isn't the VTT concept that is the problem. What seems to happen is that as the distance increases the VTT stops hovering over the model and starts dropping onto the model so that by the time you hit around .3 klicks the VTT is around the feet of the model when you zoom in which becomes a problem when the model goes prone or crouches. Of the options that I could think of it seemed that a toggle similar to how we can switch the CC radar mode and remove the VTT's would be most likely to succeed. We can work around it somewhat by going into the DIE and changing the radar tracking to AIR or SUL which removes the VTT tags from the ground units but its a little cumbersome to do in the heat of combat.

I can take screenshots to show you what I'm talking about if you like.

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