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Supreme Cmdr

UC Dev Status - Ship it or give it another month?

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

And don't respond to the above post, I am in a really crappy mood, and you won't make it much better.

So just chill out and ignore me, it would be the right thing to do.

If not the smart one.....

I wouldn't even bother responding to them other folks. That's why I've stayed away from most forums. 99% of the conversations that have gone on on other sites I could swear I was talking or reading posts from 10 to 14 year olds.

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Cancelled pre-order at EBgames untill issues are settled in favour of Derek.

I don't want to buy a game at a price that shows no respect for its developer.

It costs me $30,- on shipping to get the game here in a reasonable amount of time and that's a bit much for a 20 dollar demo.

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quote:

it would be the right thing to do.

If not the smart one.....


shaking in my boots mate!!! I agree that a lot of younger people are dick heads...a lot of forums are indeed not worth bothering with just don`t agree with he way you choose to describe them....

...I`m guessing we won`t even see the "cheap release of UC in the UK then derek?" as soon as you`re in legal proceedings all sales will be halted yes?

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quote:


Originally posted by lynxz:

...I`m guessing we won`t even see the "cheap release of UC in the UK then derek?" as soon as you`re in legal proceedings all sales will be halted yes?


Remember the part where I said that I can't discuss the issue any longer because thats why I have attorneys I'm paying a lot of money to resolve? Good. So please refrain from asking me anything related to this issue. IF you see the game on the shelve and you want to buy it, be my guest. Its your money.

Dreamcatcher Europe is a division of Dreamcatcher Canada. As such, if an injunction is successfull, it will apply to Dreamcatcher and every single licensee of my IP because I didn't license the IP to any entity but Dreamcatcher - and they have sub-licensing rights.

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Guest Fox__Trot

So this is what they mean by an NDA I guess... everyone becomes real quiet and cant tell you anything

Ah well best of luck on the lawsuit then

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whoa...I didn`t realise you weren`t allowed to talk in general terms about UC...apologies...but even if it reaches the UK I`ll hang fire on buying it...as I don`t like seeing anyone screwed by big companies when they`ve put a lot of work into their project, but i wish you luck, and hope it all comes together as it should...and if it all goes well I`ll buy it at the correct price....

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Preorder from EB cancelled. We should tally the results from all of the cancellations so Dreamcatcher can easily see what their tactics are costing them.

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Well, this is all interesting for someone who just got here (that's me). I asked my Local EB to set aside a copy just recently and now I find myself in a situation where I want them to charge me double the sale price ($60 CDN instead of around $30 CDN). I was thinking I should just buy two games but I don't think that will help Derek. Nor will buying BCMG because it's also under Dreamcatcher, right?

But you know, the $30 I would save isn't worth the grief Derek is going through so I'll cancel my request with EB Games. I'll be more than happy to sign up with any offical protest or boycott of DC.

I do hope this works out for the best, and soon, because I got a $100 Gift Card for EB for Christmas and it's burning a hole in my pocket.

Guys, how comparable is BCMG to UC? I'm specifically looking for good co-op.

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Guest Fox__Trot

goto the main page 3000ad.com and read the feature list betwain bcmg and UC thats the easiest way to tell -- I dont own bcmg just bcm

Heads up for you though Youre system profile information goesto the wrong link (click mine to someone elseS) to get an idea of what it should look like

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I read these boards regularly but haven't posted(or even logged in) in a long time. I have to post now though, to say how pissed off I am at seeing Battlecruiser being treated like it's the Chevy Chase show by Dreamcatcher.

I would have paid $50-60US gladly.

HRm, all this Battlecruiser talk gives me a craving.

*plays*

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Working in a big company, I see this all the time when the suits see earnings heading for another quarter report than the one they have committed to upwards.

It's usually about them having to bother their superiors with "details" and footnotes. And a "date-not-met" is a highly measurable and tangible thing as opposed to all the smokescreening you can do with other types of f*ckups.

I think merely someone in the publishers house is feeling the heat from the Xmas date not being met, and they try to translate it to blame SC which in return is (and always was) crystal clear that the Xmas concern was a distant second.

People realizing what UC is, ie the hardcore community, would gladly pay top dollars for the product whereas the common joe may not (but they are forgetting he wont be paying bottom dollar either).

The axiom that they need to get straight is that if you are aiming at budget price shelves, you should have a title with A4 general populace appeal and a budget learning curve as well. People not ivesting dollars wont invest time either.

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Please read this and this. NOTE: TSS is a game publisher

Looks like the board is down for maintenance. Anyway here are the contents of the first link.

quote:


just wanted to thank all of you sensible ones for throwing your own 0.2c into the ring - and for not rising to the flamebait being tossed about. I have full confidence in the abilities of the GG mods, hence the reason I have refrained from responding.

I just wanted to point to this thread in which I talk about the price of games and the impact of selling this game for $19.99, as well as DC's latest statements related to the price of $19.99. Please pay close attention to posts by TSS, a game publisher.

If they had the consumer in mind, they would not have attempted to ship a NON WORKING and INCOMPLETE game into retail. That move cost me several thousands of dollars in attorney fees. I prevailed.

The action which I have now started last week, is going to cost me probably 4x if it goes into litigation.

As to the support of the game. If it ever gets released at that price and court decides that Dreamcatcher will prevail, we [3000AD] will support it to the best of our abilities, given the limited resources we would have. It is not like 96-97 where we had only one game to focus on. Times have changed and we not only have five games now under our belt (two of which, BCM/BCMG, are still being supported), but a third (UC) will join. Then we have three games (BCO, KnightBlade our Xbox game and the planned UC sequel/addon) as well. As such, the significant reduction in our payment on UC would severely hamper our ability to support UC to our fullest extent. But we will support it nonetheless because that is our history. It is our product. It is ours. We care. you will decide - given the circumstances - if you would rather give your money to DC, knowing that we won't benefit from it, of if you will save it for the next product that is to come from us.

That is all I wanted to say.

But make no mistake, even if this legal action costs me what the game UC cost to develop, I will pursue it to the very bitter end. The Cease & Desist letter was just a first step. What happens today/tomorrow in the Canadian courts, will serve to prove just serious I am to NOT let another publisher put my gamers, my IP and my company at risk.

I am also going to be hiring a PR company today (negotiations were underway on Fri/Sat) to bring awareness of this to the general gaming public and I am also going to be hiring another large lawfirm here in the US to tackle the retail side of this issue. If this game - after an injunction is served (assuming it is successfull) - ever gets on the retail shelves prior, they will be removed until a formal legal resolution is reached.

I will spare NO EXPENSE in my pursuit of this. Make absolutely NO mistake about this. What the world doesn't know is that I have a lot of resources and backers who have just been waiting to have at the very least, one publisher nailed to the wall for unscrupulous acts against indie devs. This simply cannot be allowed to continue because far too many indie devs have suffered worse at the hands of such publishers.


My post in the thread about the cost of games

quote:


/stepping on box

Originally posted by Tim Frederick:

I have to agree with the people that feel lowering the cost to $20 would hurt the quality of the games. Why does the local artist not get to sell their cds for $50 because they sell less? Because their cds cost very little to make! If you think about it, a good selling video game sells over a million copies, a top-selling computer game sells a couple-hundred thousand copies. Since most high-profile titles cost at least $2 million these days, and there is a HUGE risk factor in game sales, you have to make a good profit on the ones that do well in order to survive.

Exactly.

Which is why, even if this looming lawsuit against Dreamcatcher costs me as much as I would have made, I'm going to pursue it to the VERY BITTER END. Apart from the reason being that publishers should never have to piss around with properties the DON'T OWN, but also because its about time they quit screwing around with indie dev's livelihood.

Fact is this. Games are NOT cheaper to make. Case in point, BCG (now UC), cost me - personally - approximately $750K in calculated costs, to develop. And thats because I run a tight ship, have very little overhead and didn't license any third party tech. Factor in Dreamcatcher's end of the deal (COGs, content advancements and whatnot), and you're looking at $1m+ (for NDA reasons, I can't give exact numbers on their end). The same game, developed over the same period of time, by a medium sized studio, would cost close to $2m easy. Ask any one who knows the industry.

And the game is not even in the triple-A league as say, Doom 3, HL2 etc

If a publisher spends, e.g. $250K on a game, over a one year period, they can afford to sell it at $19.99 and not lose any money. Period. Going in, you set a budget for the type of game you want to develop. When Activision Value, Trisynergy, Strategy First etc release games for $19.99 to $29.99, do you think it cost them $1m to develop? Let alone two years? No.

So, when you decide you are going to spend two years on a game and its going to cost you $2m to make, you also HAVE to set a price projection in order to determine how many units - worse case scenario - you have to sell in order to recoup and turn a profit. If you figure that it is a mass market title that everyone is going to buy, you STILL don't go out and price it at $20 just because you can. You price it based on market conditions, the type of game, and its target audience. There is a damn good reason why cheap games don't sell any better than their pricey counterparts. Its because the price automatically throws into question, the quality. Why? Because, believe it or not, people equate the price of something - ANYTHING - with their quality.

Nice titles are a completely different ballgame.

I wrote an article about this back in 2001. The math is NOT as cut and dry as some would like to think. And the gits who wrote that fairplay petition, must be on acid because they clearly have NO clue.

You're not going to spend $2m on a quality triple-A title and expect to recoup your costs and post a profit, by selling it for $20. Thats just stupid math.

So, if you're not going to spend that kind of money on a game, you could easily spend $250K and sell a game for $20. Then you - the consumer - have to ask yourself, what sort of quality, gameplay, support etc, do you expect from a game that cost $20.

Then there's overhead. Companies like EA have more overhead than say, 3000AD Inc or Matrix Games. So, they former has to maximize the price of the game

in order to max out their profits. The price of games may drop (e.g. $49.99 reserved for top-tier games, while $39.99 for mid-range etc), but the cost of developing games isnt'. Unless you fire all the high priced and experienced US developers and hire developers from a country where the cost of one of my cars is their GNP. They'd be HAPPY to work for you.

To wit. There is a big thing going on in the US right now because more and more corps are exporting jobs, leaving ABLE Americans out of work. Thats EXACTLY what some publishers are also doing and thats the #1 reason why there are so many publishers signing foreign developers who (a) cost less (
B)
can be pushed around - and can't do a DAMN THING about it. This is NOT a slight against foreign developers - some of who are exceptionally talented (e.g. CCP, Croteam, the Max Payne devs etc) - its just the facts.

So, since the cost of developing games is not getting cheaper, how on Earth is the price of games supposed to be lower? Even the $39.99 price point for games is average, because some triple-A games can easily command $49.99 from day one.

Also, game prices do get lowered at some point. The key factor is the initial sell-in period. If you don't make at the very least, 75% of your money within the first 30 days, your game is a loss leader. Once the price starts going down, all you should hope for is to recoup costs and not lose money.

Another example. When I signed BCM Gold with Dreamcatcher in Dec 2002, it was just a throw in. I had made all the money I need to, on its 2001 predecessor, BCM. A year earlier!! The four months of work that went into the aspects of the Gold release, could easily have seen the game sold for $19.99 and without a peep from me. It was priced at $29.99, was released at that price (in March 2003) and is still holding at that price. The publisher has - I kid you not - almost quadrupuled the costs of that four months of work.

OK, so, BCM Gold, four months of work, went out at $29.99. UC, with two years and $1m plus, goes out at $19.99. Whats wrong with this picture?

I'll tell you whats wrong. I didn't sit down and say hey, I'm gonna spend two years (the dev period for my mainstream releases) on this NICHE GAME so that I call sell it for $19.99 and LOSE MONEY. Up until the name and focus change were done in August of 2003, UC was still (and still is, come to think of it), a BATTLECRUISER TITLE. Given that, who on Earth is going to expect THAT game - or its ilk - to sell TWICE its projected numbers, in order to recoup its costs, let alone turn a profit?

I'll tell you. The publisher - whose only investment is probably equal to what the legal action I have taken, is going to cost me. But even then, if the game goes out at that price, I can 100% guarantee you, its because I've got a large compensatory check and/or a royalty boost. No question about it. When you make it require TWICE as many sales for a developer to see cent one of their investment, you clearly threaten to put them out of business (heh, not me, obviously) and NOT PAY THEM ANYTHING.

So, reducing the MSRP from $39.99 to $19.99 does NOT mean its going to sell more. Thats just pure and utter RUBBISH. The Adventure Company (a div of Dreamcatcher) can afford to sell those games at that price because its not like the adventure game genre is on fire. Plus, go take a look at the developers of those games. MOST are foreign developers. Jane Jensen (who I met with and spoke to at E3 - awesome lady!!!) signed on to do GN4 with The Adventure Company, they will probably sell her game at $19.99 but it is highly unlikely. Why should they do that, when they've got HER name on the box. HER rep? They can sell it for $29.99 and make a ton more money than at $19.99. Publishers a GREEDY BASTARDS and they NEVER EVER have the consumer's best interest in mind, which is why the suit at Dreamcatcher who released this rubbish about the UC pricing, probably won't have a job in the short term.

Our pricing strategy has been set in the best interests of the title and more importantly the consumer. Universal Combat provides terrific value to the consumer at $19.99 and we are happy to be able to deliver that value.

The best interests of the title? More importantly the consumer? Why doesn't SOMEONE ask them about their other indie devs? For e.g 4Drulers (Gore), Digital Reality (Hegemonia) etc? Do you see ANYTHING in the excerpt about about US the developers who OWN the IP, source code, materials EVERYTHING?!?! No. They don't give shit about us.

In their press release of 2003, why weren't they thinking of being happy to give that valuewhen they were marking the game's price at $39.99? What? Did some exec get visited by the ghost of Christmas past or something?

Why didn't they bring this up last December when they ILLEGALLY tried to ship a game they KNEW was not FIT for retail release? An action I - Derek Smart - put a STOP to. I did THAT in the best interest of the consumer. MY FANS. Why? Because I care. I could've shut up, taken the money (the game was $39.99 then), and released a patch. So, WHY did I not do that? Because I CARE and despite what most think of me, when it comes to business, my business ethics are unquestionable. Which is why - gasp - I am able to continue signing deals.

If I hadn't signed with Dreamcatcher, I would have once again self-published BCG and made 3x more money that I'm going to make now. I ONLY signed because after the BCM exclusive with EB, most of the retailers were pissed. I wanted to smooth that over, which is one of the reasons why BCM Gold was even released, since not all retailers got to release BCM. One such retailer was GameStop. So, I needed to do the deal for that reason alone - which is why, to me, BCM Gold was a throw away title. It just so happened to - surprisingly - make money, with the majority of its revenue coming from International sales.

Publisher don't care. Period. So, if they sell a game at $49.99, they will. Unless and until marketing conditions dicatates otherwise, that is NEVER going to change. Period. And if they sell a top quality game at $20, its because they paid ****all for it or don't intend on paying the developers for it. As I sit here, I know of no less than nine indie developers who have released games through some publishers and never got paid a DIME as they were supposed to. NINE developers.

I apologize for using my title as an example. I do this because it is the only thing that I have factual data on and I am not in the position to speculate about other publishers and/or devs.

/me steps off box


And one of TSS posts in response

quote:


Originally posted by Derek Smart: Fact is this. Games are NOT cheaper to make. Case in point, BCG (now UC), cost me - personally - approximately $750K in calculated costs, to develop. And thats because I run a tight ship, have very little overhead and didn't license any third party tech. Factor in Dreamcatcher's end of the deal (COGs, content advancements and whatnot), and you're looking at $1m+ (for NDA reasons, I can't give exact numbers on their end). The same game, developed over the same period of time, by a medium sized studio, would cost close to $2m easy. Ask any one who knows the industry.

Nothing is cheaper to make these days in most software engineering. BC is certainly an enormous effort. I have no clue as to how many lines of code you made or how many meg/gig of datum or even if the core engine has been completely re-done over the years. At 750K I presume thats a raw estimate, engineering hours etc not taking into account whats been tax deductible etc against positive revenues. A $2 Million dollar game is certainly at the high end of scale. This would be in the Knight Of The Old republic area. But, with such "AAA" titles alot of work gets sub-contracted and thus large segments of that expenditure become write-off's in taxes.

With the >$1m games also the game engine need be factored and this is also the case to a lesser extent with lower budget development. That engine may well be re-used or license sold again making positive revenues against the original development costs.

Originally posted by Derek Smart:... You price it based on market conditions, the type of game, and its target audience. There is a damn good reason why cheap games don't sell any better than their pricey counterparts. Its because the price automatically throws into question, the quality. Why? Because, believe it or not, people equate the price of something - ANYTHING - with their quality.

This is 101% on the money at least in America. While I could argue that a $2mill "PC ONLY" game would ever make back a positive revenue I am sure some have, sure many have not. Again it depends how one factors that money. Reuse of code etc. from prior projects.

Americans equate everything to numbers which is somewhat funny since most could not pass 10th grade math (just a fact). The average $20,000 car costs under 1/3rd that to manf. so at least in my case I dont concern myself about $20 vs $40 expenditures for a game. A $90K house over a 30 year mortgage will run well in excess of $200,000 so I focus on getting that DOWN. I had a 30 year mortgage and just by being smart now have it down to 16 years and have owned the house for 4.

Americans equate quality to price.

A PC game at $20 vs $40 quality or not is moot. We aer talking what in "games or software engineering" is rapidly becoming a vertical market. Asking why console games with a much larger market retain a higher price point and shelf life would be a better arguement. Well, not really an arguement, simple market actually. Get the most one can get as long as one can get it.

For example I dont see workers in America saying, "Geez... I make enough to take a vacation and have $3000 of extra cash each year... I think I dont want it so we should all refuse it so the products/services our employers make can be cheaper for the consumers"

Originally posted by Derek Smart:You're not going to spend $2m on a quality triple-A title and expect to recoup your costs and post a profit, by selling it for $20. Thats just stupid math.

Again Derek, you have about 5-7 people at this site who are active posters that have industry experience. I'm not talking just games but software engineering. Of course its stupid math. Its one of the things that murders this particular industry (PC Games). People who judge the industry, judge the titles etc. often have absolutely no idea in any way shape or form how it works yet stand in judgement.

Originally posted by Derek Smart:Then there's overhead......... Unless you fire all the high priced and experienced US developers and hire developers from a country where the cost of one of my cars is their GNP. They'd be HAPPY to work for you.

To wit. There is a big thing going on in the US right now because more and more corps are exporting jobs, leaving ABLE Americans out of work. Thats EXACTLY what some publishers are also doing and thats the #1 reason why there are so many publishers signing foreign developers who (a) cost less (
B)
can be pushed around - and can't do a DAMN THING about it. This is NOT a slight against foreign developers - some of who are exceptionally talented (e.g. CCP, Croteam, the Max Payne devs etc) - its just the facts.

Alot of overhead results in tax deductions again but this is the case in all indsutry. As to the developers deal... sad is'nt it? Yes, companies all over America are trashing software engineers, hardware engineers and then some. They hire in sub-contract coder's from mainly Asia and take/devalue the skilled trades.

Your right, the developers are extremely talented in many cases. What comes out of China now are people who are completely focused. Its not like the US where "Well I was a teacher turned author, turned game maker, turned developer". Nope. Instead its "This is what you are. This is your trade for life". They get a living wage and the rest goes "Syonara" to China. Its not just a jobs export its also the actual wage earned export.

This is NATIONALISM on the part of China. We dont have it here. Not at all. Here we have "I want all that I can obtain as cheap as I can obtain it".

If consumers in the USA simply balanced spending, "65% of everything I buy be US made, 35% import" our economy would be BOOMING ALWAYS.

I've attempted numerous times to explain to this user base the effects just of the illegal replication/resale of current popular games. Figures in PC Games vary from 3 Billion - 6 Billion last year. These are exacting replications manufactured mainly in Asia. 3-6 BILLION is a HUGE amount of money. That sort of money infused back into PC Games would have just an ENORMOUS effect.

Many email me to discuss further, most however could care less. They want as much as they can get as cheap as they can get it. This is human nature of course, nobody "at fault" for it.

Originally posted by Derek Smart:Also, game prices do get lowered at some point. The key factor is the initial sell-in period. If you don't make at the very least, 75% of your money within the first 30 days, your game is a loss leader. Once the price starts going down, all you should hope for is to recoup costs and not lose money.

Exactly. Did not used to be this way. Shelf life of PC Games is approcahing that of fresh produce

Losses of course assuming a profitable publisher may result in write-off's in taxes against positve revenues. Still, money in the hand is better (at least for most) than a tax deduction.

To boot, the hardened PC Gamer and the mass replications (pirated) has caused a very vicous circle. Retailers/Resellers are not ordering the quantities they used to. They dont order because the volume has slid they sell. Meanwhile right "in kind" the amounts of money ending up transferred for exacting replications has jumped in kind. Publsihers price drop faster in attempt to move a lions share to recoup total COG. Consumers who will only buy from known retailers be it CompUSA or EB Online etc. now EXPECT price drops, so they wait. Thus a very vicious circle is created.

In that circle the only winners are the pirates who mass replicated, made tons of money for no work. The consumer "got a deal" be it from the exacting replication or rapid price drop. Ulitmately however they kill the entertainment they enjoy.

There are really no "less" PC Gamers now than 5 or 10 years ago. The numbers of people are still there. If those people got motivated to take a stand against the mass illegal replications and resale they could turn the industry about.

I suspect if this were to occur that shelf-life's would go back stronger and of course price points would not see the rapid price drops. So is it to a consumers "raw" advantage. No. To the industry? Yes.

So we have a paradox. The result of this will end up being down the trail in online gaming so reoccurring billing models take the stage. Then consumers will be screaming murder when a game that takes 60 hours to complete costs them $5 per hour of play.

----

As to the BCM / UC stuff... Man, sorry to hear your getting the Publisher Push-About. Thats what we used to call in internally back when I was coding games oriented code. For the most part I and my brother were brought in for contract work so we were able to set some ridgid terms up front.

I'd have thought with your experience with "time in" the games industry you'd might have expected it.

This is a shame Derek. I sure wished we'd spoke with you before hand. We do know some indie pub's that are not the corporate model. Replication, packaging and distribution. I bought your BCM at Gamestop I believe, have not even played it, little time on hand. I'm like you, in fact your probably the only person I know of with more games than me

While the folks we know do not have any form of agreement I am aware of with EB or Gamestop, BestBuy etc (mainstream). They do have agreements with places like BJ's Wholesale club, Amazon, Sams Club, Big Lots and other retailers in addition to myriads of online resellers and even a global presence of sorts.

I dont know what the contract deal you have is.

Do realize however that while the mainstream publishers enjoy the top retailers and the status quo apparently (if I read you correct) in indie development w/ mainstream publishers has not changed in the past 10 years (I stepped out of it early 90' (contract work)). Am I right? I mean I know you cant "slap it all down in a thread" but I get the impression via your message that this is the case? The dinosaur is still the dinosaur, the double edged "work with us get #'s of scale" or do not and "work thy perverbial tail to get volume sales"?

If this is indeed the case, then you may have missed a boat. That is to say that there are indie publisher and NO not doing games distrib. that have over years of work established decent distribution. They are much more reasonable. While no you may not see a title appear in every games store you can still sell considerable amounts and get a better shake on your rev share. You also enjoy a longer product life. With some we know if your title is selling they'll still be selling it a year, two years... As long as it moves they will peddle it.

Your not privvy to what we see as we are now in resale as well. We still do dev work but not games. I see LOTS of indie firms release under their own branding. Every liquidator we work with in purchasing will opt into these titles and distributions will vary. For example, language titles. I have saw upstarts that have run their own show and now enjoy distribution thats constantly on the grow.

You have one title so that makes it hard for you to really get a fair shake even in independent distribution. Not like having CD's of 80 world languages which are also timeless, as useful today as two years from today.

This is not however to say that many of these companies would NOT be interested in your software. They are interested in money, your interested in money, we're interested in money, resellers are interested in money.

Best Buy, EB, Gamestop on & on all interested in money too but a product is a product. They dont care if its yours or someone elses. Their long term revenue model comes from high turn-over and constant new items to keep that engine going.

The indie's on the other hand dont have that high a turn over but will sustain a longer revenue model and unlike mainstream they WORK to grow the distribution.

Publishers are not going to "sheep their pants" when mainstream retailers opt away from stocking the PC Games model. On the present course of PC Games due to the "vicious circle" noted above its not an "if" it will happen but "when" as retailers opt more into console, dvd, shelf-life and thus a better revenue model, a stable one. They wont sheep their pants as the consoles will keep them in money irregardless of a 2% PC market.

Again, dunno what your deal you've got going is.

The "third party" and midstream retailer market HAS grown. It used to be a nuthin'.

Its a measured thing to think about.

You can sell what oodles will sell via Gamestop and whatall mainstream DC has moved the work through. You can get your royalty which I presume is around standard rates. Once the shelf life falls off done is done. I presume they retain rights for some term after.

Or, you look to long term sales, get a better rev share, probably a lesser price point and your title appears at Sams Club's, Media Play, our store, CD Access, Amazon and others.

Its something you might like look into. Self-distribution is a tough row to hoe. Mainstream means instant volume, instant money then product death. The indie pubs lend a long term model and a flexible one w/ decent distribution.

--------------------

Rick

President

The Software Society

http://www.rochnet.net


[ 02-02-2004, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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Lawyers tell you to get this out of the public eye for a bit?

Hopefully that means something positive is happening!!

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They heard the case today. The judge is going to give his ruling tomorrow morning.

If he grants the injunction, then DC cannot release the game at $19.99.

If he doesn't grant it, then they can go ahead and the only recourse I would have at that point is to proceed with damages as per the current facts of the case.

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Derek,

I just received a shipping confirmation from EB Games that my Universal Combat order has shipped.

I thought I had cancelled the order but in my anger I must have clicked away from the confirmation screen too soon.

I called EBgames and asked how much I was charged and he said $39.99. When I asked him why I was charged that much when his website has it listed for $19.99 he immediately offered me a $20 refund or the option to have them mail me a return envelope.

Just thought you should know that it is indeed shipping from EB Games.

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

They heard the case today. The judge is going to give his ruling tomorrow morning.

If he grants the injunction, then DC cannot release the game at $19.99.

If he doesn't grant it, then they can go ahead and the only recourse I would have at that point is to proceed with damages as per the current facts of the case.

Good luck, I hope your lawyers used a little David verses Goliath in this one, because the Canadian judges really go for the Davids!!

Good luck SC, we're rooting for you!!

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"Ahem"

That was an interesting read....

It's really odd, the way the guys with the money and the contacts like to push the little guys around. It's remeniscent of secondary school bullies.

What I really found funny during my days in school was that every bully I was confronted with, would back down if I responded in a threatening manner. A quick pop in the nose usually took the wind out of every one of them, so....

Seems it's time for the little guys to take a swing at the folks who haven't graduated from the Neanderthal mentality to the Homo Sapiens mentality.

I have witnessed the unscrupulous dealings of many busineses in my lifetime. If they weren't screwing their customers out of money to boost their profits, they were putting it to their employees.

It seems that publishers are no different than the rest of the greedy bastages out there in this world. They look for an Indie Dev to screw, thinking he/she won't have the resources to fight for what is rightfully theirs.

Bust them up side the nose, SC. you can doo eet

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Derek Give 'em hell.

As has been stated quite a bit here (and elsewhere) the BC series is a niche market product. And the memebers of that Niche are quite regular contributors on these forums.

Surely DC must know that we all support Derek in this and by doing this they will like loose the sales to the majority(if not all ) of us.

That sounds like a financially suicidal maneuvor on DC's part!

Or did I miss something??

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