Simparadox

quote:Originally posted by Menchise: You call that shuttle thing a serious exploit? OK, here's another exploit for you. Commander sees enemy supercarrier being towed at high speed by shuttle. The shuttle's shields are down (they're automatically lowered when the tractor beam is deployed). Commander launches interceptor at the shuttle. Interceptor destroys shuttle. End of exploit. I'm not saying it's unbeatable or anything, just that it's an exploit that probably shouldn't be there.

quote:Originally posted by Gallion: A Diplomat would not make it to Gammula. An Assassin would more than likely take out the Diplomat before it ever made it there. Take a look at the Castes page of the Appendix. Creating a scenario that takes advantage of harmless castes abilities (traders, explorers, workers, etc.), that is centered on a player playing as one of those castes, would be easy to do but not very exciting IMO. Creating a scenario/campaign with harmless caste NPCs could add to the scenario. I don't know what that would be aside from what I call normal NPC interaction. But what the hey, when GBS-II is release, try it and find out. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. TTFN [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Gallion ] I plan to (try it, that is)... but that's sort of what I was concerned/asking about. It just seems like their should be some interesting or fun use for them (with a player in control, that is) if they're playable. That's part of the reason I said "useless" - because they don't seem to have a use for the player. Uhm... anyway... I suppose this is going nowhere until I can try GBS-II out for myself. So I'll shutup.

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: The testers have the 1.0.02 patch already and I just uploaded another version to them. We are currently researching that persistent damagefx issue and I simply cannot release the patch without it. So far, its proving to be elusive to reproduce. I don't want to have to release another patch, so, this one has to go into this update. I have updated the VCF btw. That's understandable and I'm really looking forward to some of those fixes. Oddly enough, I've seen that damage bug myself... but I can't figure out why it appears either. It happened within the first twenty minutes of playing the game after I installed it and it hasn't happened since (and that's with some pretty intensive playing). It's definetly strange. Anyway, glad to hear things are coming along with the patch. Keep up the awesome work.

Yep, it really is an awesome game. For some reason ever since I got here I've only been responding to the little criticizing posts, but I really do love this thing. I loved BC3K too, though... great games, man. These are about as close to my dream game as you can come (I swear I have a close to 100 page design document outlining a "starship command sim" that I've been wanting to make for the past three years ).

quote:Originally posted by Badgerius: I'll hold him, who'll hit him? We've got him, boss. Go take your vacation. Noooooo! What about the new patch!?

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: I got two words for you folks: multi-player The world and characters I build back in the late 80's and early 90's will continue until the dawn of time or until I decide to introduce new races and castes. BCO is a MMOG version of BCM in which each and every caste plays an important role in the game. Especially seemlingly harmless castes such as explorers, traders, colonists. Who, believe it or not are going to have more strategic power than ANY of the races on the server. Period. For one thing, unless you are one of those races, you can't own property. And they control all the stations, bases, cities etc. Chew on that. In fact, which reminds me, I need to update the BCO faq. Sounds awesome. And I have no doubt that BCO is going to be an incredible game, but I (and I only speak for myself) was just curious if they served any purpose in the single player game. I guess that answers my question - thanks!

quote:Originally posted by Badgerius: Well, I haven't looked at the GBS-II system yet, but based on what I've heard, and based on GBS-1, I'm guessing that there are no caste specific abilities. However, you could easily script things for explorers or colonists to do using GBS-II. For example, you could create ruins models using 3d studio, insert them into the game at random locations, and put artifacts in them. Happy treasure hunting for your explorer. You could create a fledgling colony on a far flung world, and grant experience for every time a colonist ferries its capacity of guests from Galcom HQ to the new colony. You could create a high level meeting between two nations that requires a diplomat as an arbitrator(sp?) that leads to a Diplomat becoming embroiled in a high stakes game of intrigue, with nothing less than interstellar war hanging in the balance. These are but a few ideas of things you can do with the GBS-II. Personally, I can't wait to try my hand at scripting myself. [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Badgerius ] Well, I'm glad to hear that. I came up with a few ideas in the "Colonizing" thread and I figured that anything I could do would mainly be focused on just creating situations that diplomats and explorers would fit into. However, I guess I was hoping that there was something that set explorers and diplomats apart from the other castes.

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: Exactly. Well said. Thank you, but it still seems like a cheap exploit to me .

quote:Originally posted by Vorpal: Start voting here... http://www.gamespy.com/goty2001/fanvote/ ...and make sure to nominate BC:M as best PC Simulation of the year! (Not to mention Operation Flashpoint as best action game of the year Wow, Gamespy had BCM listed on their "best of 2001" simulation list? I'm impressed.

quote:Originally posted by JelloKing: i do se some FX, but i think only the bitmaps and particles. Yes I do have dx8.1 I'm using the latest drivers you can download from Nvidia's website; version 4.13.01.2183 i think I don't think anyone from 3000ad can recommend them since they're not official, but try downloading the "leaked" beta Detonator XP drivers (2180). You can find them here: [*]http://gamershq.madonion.com/news/?newsart...0111/2001110600 (Scroll down to the bottom of that page) I can't say for sure that's your problem or whether it'll even help, but I've heard a lot of people (on this forum and on others) say that it seriously boosts performance and I can say for sure that it did on my system. Plus, it just might resolve some sort of hardware/driver issue you're having. It's worth a shot, but keep your old drivers handy just in case.

Please show some respect next time. There are NO useless castes in the game. Next time, I will delete the thread.Okay, the whole "Colonizing Empty Planets" (or something like that) thread in the BCM General Forum has been going on for a day or two and it's really got me thinking. As a matter of fact, it's the thing that got me interested in scripting and modding the game. It's also brought up a few questions in my mind and I figured this is a more appropriate place to ask them, so here goes... When the information for scripting scenarios and campaigns is available will it allow for Diplomat or Explorer scenarios that use some latent advantage these castes have? For example (and this really isn't an attempt to get more information about the castes, I'm just seriously curious about whether scripting will open up new possibilities for them), do the Explorer and Diplomat castes have some special ability that can be tied into mission objectives? Something that would allow me or someone else to make a scenario/campaign that could only be realistically completed by these castes? Thanks in advance! [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

quote:Originally posted by Thermidor: I don't agree with the "just don't use it" concept when concerning exploits. I don't have a problem with refraining from using exploits, especially when they are obvious. But when they are not so obvious (as in the case of the shuttle tugging) it leaves a glaring flaw in the game environment and play mechanics. I anticipate a response of "But it is obvious!". And my answer will be "No it is not. If you look at the initial post of this conversation thread you will see the proof": "Anyway, what I am getting at is: is this an exploit or a perfectly fine and desirable behavior?" If a player of the game has to ask whether a noted exploit is one or not, then it's invading the territory of sound gameplay and it should definitely be removed. Especially in the case of a game which is soon to have multiplayer capability. If you plan on having this series extend into the Massively Multiplayer arena, I am sure you know that squashing exploits is a full time job with those sort of games. I can understand that there are more important things to attend to at the moment. But I do believe that squashing all known exploits even in the single player game is important for the reasons stated above. Maybe I'm crazy or just an idiot. If so please disregard. Again, I don't use this particular exploit and I don't have much of a problem ignoring it - but I can see what you're saying. I can also see what the person who suggested that exploits make "suspension of disbelief" a bit harder is saying. One thing that always nags me about exploits... If I'm playing a game I feel like I should play it to the best of my ability, and that includes using every advantage that I know about. On the other hand, I like to play fair (yes, even in single player games). Since "exploits" are really just things that the developers missed during development it's kind of hard to tell whether or not they're fair. After all, it is part of the game and no special "cheats" need to be activated to use it. I have to admit, though, as far as "fast towing" is concerned it seems to be a pretty glaring exploit and one that should be removed before the fan base gets too used to using it (and then complains about it being nerfed when multiplayer comes along ). [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Simparadox ]

quote:Originally posted by IceCold: Physics lesson F=ma does constitute that more force is required in order to give an object of large mass at the same acceleration of a small one. This is the key acceleration (m/s2) is not velocity (m/s) in space assuming ideal conditions, the BC would continue to gain speed until it became infinitely close to the speed of light. Therefore, using any spacecraft thruster, a force supplied over time (an impulse) would continue to increase the acceleration experienced as long as the engines continue to burn. When the engines cease firing, the craft will continue gaining velocity until anther force acts upon it (Newton's first law of motion). [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: IceCold ] Yep, I was aware of that . I'm usually not that good at getting my point across, but what I was trying to say was that since there isn't a realistic physics model in BCM I just used acceleration and velocity interchangably. Since BCM portrays a ship's engines as being on the entire time it has any speed at all one would assume that it's constantly accelerating and its velocity is increasing as well. But since this isn't the case I guess most of the physics stuff we're discussing really gets thrown out of the window. As for what you said about hyperspace travel... I won't even try to agree/disagree with that. It seems to be somewhat out of my league when it comes to physics, so it's time for me to just nod and smile. [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Simparadox ]

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: I have released this patch to testers for a quick run through to make sure everything is fine. I'll be releasing it tomorrow if all is well. Any chance that patch might still be released today? Not to rush ya or anything

quote:Originally posted by Mitchell: I do understand that the original question concerned why a Palyer could choose such a career when many of its functions, as described in the appendix, were not (yet) supported in the game. But, I have to wonder, why would anybody want to colonize a planet in a real-time game??? Maybe BCO will support this, but this isn't Civ or MOO or SEIV - colonization takes years or even decades - I'd be bored stiff . The point is that seeing explorers and colonists while flying around adds to the feel of the game, and having to do things like escort, protect or evacuate them makes for interesting mission scripts. So, you can sign on as an explorer and explore the galaxy to your heart's content, but it's difficult for me to imagine how a real-time game like BCM could support something like a single player 'colonizing' a new planet... I can't see "colonizing" a planet as a realistic gameplay option, I'm just saying that if the castes are playable there should be at least a somewhat interesting and fun way to play them appropriately. It's one thing if you have a caste that only NPCs can play and they don't have any special abilities or advantages. That's fine - the way you play the game isn't affected since the NPCs can be scripted to act realistically. On the other hand, if you allow players to play as a certain caste there should be a reason to do so. Even if that reason won't be practical until scripting new scenarios and campaigns becomes possible (I'm still curious about this, by the way). I'm not criticizing the game, it just seems odd to put the castes there (and, by extension, make some people want to play them) when they don't do much of anything. Also... a lot of people have mentioned that some castes have been put in in anticipation of multiplayer. But it seems that if the castes serve no purpose in single player, they won't in multiplayer either. Just some random thoughts.

quote:Originally posted by Ancharon: Anyway, my real point is that I just had a small comment about the "weight" thing: Remember where the shuttle and whatever craft it's towing are. In space! Do you understand the concept behind that? Weight has no bearing in space, only mass, and mass in space doesn't limit transportation. There's no friction (well, an incredibly small amount of it, anyway. Not enough to be noticed until after some centuries of travel, no doubt...unless you smash into something solid. ). You could go outside and flick your CC and 1) your finger'd hurt like hell, 2) the CC would move in the direction you flicked it at whatever speed your finger's flicking action gave it. [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Ancharon ] I'm not an expert at physics or anything, but I do remember a bit from High School. As far as I know the force needed to provide an object with a certain amount of acceleration is still based on the mass of that object. And that's with friction/air resistance ignored completely. IIRC, F=ma so acceleration is equal to force over mass. Therefor, more mass requires greater force to achieve the same acceleration. So I doubt if you flicked your finger at your battlecruiser it'd go very far . Anyway, I'd imagine since the engines on a shuttle are much smaller (and since the shuttle itself has much less mass) they wouldn't be capable of pulling a battlecruiser at very high speeds. That is, unless they accelerated for a very long time... but even then, BCM doesn't have any kind of realistic physics model (thank god, or thank SC... whichever ) so you'd just go really really slow for a really really long time. Uhm... so now I'm just rambling a bit. I doubt the shuttle thing is really that big of a deal. Physics don't behave realistically in the BCM universe, so there's no reason to expect that a shuttle's engines aren't strong enough to pull a CC around at high speeds. Then again, I don't really use the exploit much so it doesn't bother me. On the other hand, in multiplayer it'd be pretty annoying to see a nearly destroyed ship escape a battle because it's shuttle has incredibly powerful engines. EDIT: Er... unless the nearly destroyed ship was mine. Then it'd be fine. [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Simparadox ]

The shots look great, man. I just hope this doesn't end up going the way of so many other Macross mods

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: You've gotta be kidding me. If the exploit is there and you feel so bad about it. uhm, don't use it. [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ] I'd be more worried about the potential effect it could have on multiplayer games. But I'd assume the multiplayer patch would include a lot of exploit/cheat fixes anyway, right?

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: If you don't like a caste, don't play it. But whatever you do, do NOT question how I designed my universe when it has ZERO impact on how you choose to play the game. That is all. I guess that's understandable, but I'm curious how one would play as a diplomat or explorer caste (since those seem to be the two being debated most). It seems like the more "aggressive" castes can affect the game world (be it by trading and making a lot of money or by attacking hostile ships and bases) by playing in a way appropriate for their caste, but explorers and diplomats (and probably a few other castes) can't. At least, that's how it appears to me. Again, I'm not saying this is bad since I wouldn't even expect the castes to be there as playable. I'm just curious how an intrepid player could go ahead and play appropriately as a diplomat or explorer and still have some impact on the game world. And I'm not really talking about in a multi-player sense, I'm just concerned as to whether or not these castes are really "playable" in single-player or whether they will be once scripting becomes available. Thanks,

quote:Originally posted by Zuul: And again, sorry if it sounds like I'm upset, but I am. Something definitely needs to be done about these castes. I don't want to be a military commander. I dont want to be an insurgent or a raider. What I want to be is an Explorer and actualy be able to do what an Explorer does, not roam around pretending to be a Trader. Whoever agrees with me, please by all means post your thoughts and keep this thread bumped. I really hate to defend developers, because I always feel out of place (especially since they're usually able to do it just fine themselves ), but I just want to reply to this one little comment. It seems like Battlecruiser is primarily a military-oriented game. It seems kind of funny to expect full support for non-combat castes out of the box. The fact that the trader is as playable as it is, though, is a real surprise and treat for me. Anyway, as I've said, I just don't see why they were included as playable. They just don't seem to do much (that I can see). I can see some really cool scenarios for explorers (re-discovering a long lost colony, anyone? Hunting for some lost artifact?) or even diplomats (Sneaking through dangerous territory to reach a secret rendevous point? Or meeting with a shady arms dealer to arrange a secret weapons purchase?)... it's just that right now they don't do anything! Why!?

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: No. Why would you want to do that? A lot of people find it easier to play from a first person perspective with an inverted mouse (it's a common option in most shooters). Personally, I find it kind of odd too... but I guess whatever someone is more used to is easier for them.

Oddly enough, a few times when I've already been close to a planet (and I mean fairly close, just a ways off from a space station orbiting it) I've hyperspaced right through a planet. It usually happens when I'm on a slight angle to the planet so I "skim" through it. There aren't any adverse effects, though, and I've never wound up making planetfall. Probably just a wierd side-effect or bug, no big deal really.. just thought I'd mention it.

quote:Originally posted by Soback: The reason for making them is that you can actually exlore space without getting constantly attacked. If you are of one race, but playing an explorer or colonizer then you can go into enemy territory without worrying so much about being blown to bits and have time to visit a planet and it's scenery without the "WARNING, ACUIRED" sound. Also, when mulitplayer comes out, you can be a trader and resuply the ships in combat that don't have huge cargo areas to carry all their spare parts and equipment, and when BCO comes then you will see even more things happening to those races you claim have no use in BCM. So yes, they do have a use in BCM, you just have to realize it instead of thinking that it's another one of those launch/kill enemy/back to base game. I understand that completely, but like I said (and you probably weren't responding to my post - at least, I hope not ) I'm more concerned about these castes having some sort of unique gameplay centered around them that can, when editing becomes available, be utilized to some extent by campaign and scenario scripters. I'm really just looking for something as simple as "the game can track what planets or systems an explorer has 'explored' and this can be used by campaign/scenario scripters". As long as these castes serve some useful, interesting, or unique gameplay purpose than I can completely see why they were included. But if they are simply weaker versions of battlecruisers that enemies react differently to... then I fail to see the point. [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Simparadox ]

quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: *smack* (hey! you said we could! 0 GBS-II for BCM has not yet been released. Thanks, all I needed to know . [ 11-26-2001: Message edited by: Simparadox ]

quote:Originally posted by kuroth: I have been too busy learning how to play the game and reading the manual but I was wondering if there are a lot of castes in the game that are really not that playable... hummmm.... I thought it was pretty clear that a few of the castes were almost totally unplayable (at least in an enjoyable fashion), but what bothers me is that they don't seem to serve much of a purpose. I'd love to hear I'm wrong, though, and that these castes (explorer, diplomat mainly... but I'm a noob, so I'm sure I'm missing some) are unique and just aren't utilized. Because in that case I'll learn the scripting system as soon as possible and start figuring out ways to make them fun :-).