ekuyper

Just to chime in; IE changes the name of the file, which IE considers to be only the name BEFORE the first "." So if you have downloaded any of the patches, it thinks you already have a file named UC2 on your machine and therefore increments the download name. People should know to pull out your DOS 2.1 manual before trying to guess what IE will do

SGT Eric J. Kuyper 13F (Forward Observer) 4th BN 41st FA 197th INF BDE (M)(S) Gulf War Aug 90-Apr 91 Got a great story involving a campfire and a camel once I get the time to type it Eric

So you have first hand knowledge of the crimes committed by the individuals under the hoods. I apologize, I did not know you were so well connected. Or are they guilty by association; because they are Iraqi and in a prision they must have done all those terrible things. The only thing that any of us know about those individuals is that they are male, Iraqi, and individual human beings. We can infer that they have transgressed the law to some extent; but oh yea, as Americans we believe in innocent until proved guilty. I saw members of my unit killed in action. I somehow managed to not vent that anger on unarmed, bound and hooded prisoners when they were specifically remanded to my care. I could understand why people would feel that "they had it coming". Innocents on our side have taken terrible casualities and abuse. But we cannot degrade ourselves to their level. Moreover, you cannot make a few people pay for crimes committed by others. When you start believing that all are guilty of the crimes of a few, that you can abuse whomever you wish because someone else once did something bad to you, then you go against all that our country, our laws, and our freedoms stand for.

Re-Reading some of the posts here, it seems that much of the disagreement here surrounds whether or not the prisoners were "tortured". That's just a disucssion about symantics. Here's a good test. Instead of a bunch of Iraqi prisoners, let's imagine it's your mother, your wife, your sister, your daughter, and for good measure we'll throw in your 3rd grade teacher. Now strip them naked, force them to pose for pictures piled on top of each other, force them to pose as if they were performing oral sex on each other, then distribute those pictures to every news organization on the planet, and have the world share in their pride and joy. Then, when your wife is returned to you several months later, explain to her that anyone who has sympathy for her should "get a clue" or that it was just a "politicaly motivated non-issue". But get a good divorce lawyer first.

The pictures represent one of the largest black eyes that this countries military has received in at least 40 years. It is utterly incomprehensable that a climate was established wherein events like this could occur. No soldier would direct naked prisoners to form a pyramid without the belief that their actions would at least be tolorated by their superiors. They knew the prisoners would talk, and they obviously felt secure that the abuse would go unpunished. Couple this with the admission that there are more pictures, more videos out there, and you have to conclude that there was a culture within that facility that allowed or encouraged this behavior. And quite frankly, all that were involved in the debasement and all that knew of it and did not properly interceed need to be found, punished, and removed from service. Sure, we still treat our prisoners better then the Iraqis treat theirs. Undoubtably, many American's have suffered much greater pain and humiliation at the hands of their captors then any of Iraqis will. However, it is the tradition of the United States Army to hold itself to the highest of standards. That's not to say that individuals always act accordingly, but that the institution as a whole will hold itself to higher standards then those of our enemies. I am particularly disturbed by the press releases by the family of Pfc. Lynndie England, stating categorically that she is just a sweet girl who only did what she was ordered to do. Throughout Basic Traning, and all throughout your career, you understand that you are not to obey an illegal order, and moreover your 3rd general order specifically requires you to report such requests to your commander. It is unthinkable that this private did not know what she was doing was wrong. All she would have to do is imagine herself tied up and blindfolded to understand the gravity of her actions. To add perspective to my statements, I was a front line combat soldier in the first gulf war. While not my primary duty, as a forward observer I was involved in prisoner actions on several occassions. Had I seen anything remotely similiar to the behavior demonstrated by these soldiers, I would have reported it to every officer I could find. The excuse that it's stressful combat situations is no excuse whatsoever. To regain it's credability, to restore honor, the United States Military needs to clean house of all that were involved in this shameless event.

quote:Originally posted by IceBladeTSW: people, people, stop voicing your opinion. Didn't you here what Derek said. DC said they are shipping the game today, with or without the RC2 patch. Theres no more discussion to be made. I saw where Derek said what DC said to him, but I'm going on the statement in the other thread that it's not Gold until Derek say's it's gold, so it's still fair game (IMHO). I was fence sitting on this issue; as bad as I want it and as much as I feel that the outstanding issues are not that big (and I probably won't get to them before the patch is ready), I also didn't put most of my adult life into this and so respect the desire to make it just so. So what am I saying? Release it when you feel it's ready, Derek, assuming DC doesn't wretch the code from your cold dead hands.