AI Levels

[Tyrn]

I'm in Tyrinis en route to LV-115 to deal with Parix station. I've managed to secure all of the artifacts to this point minus the RANDOM Device itself.

I'm quite concerned about Jo Lanix, she just doesn't seem to be following through on her studies as she's still only rated at a level 25! My other officers are fairing just as poorly with Allsion Weeks being the star student at 32. Is this normal? Are the artifacts (other than those that can be manually installed or just work) mainly for looks or should I scan my nutripak supply for lead?

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[Supreme Cmdr]

Reading the manual would be great start.

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Reading the manual would be great start.

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Let me be blunt, I've read the manual enough (two times cover to cover including the appendices and numerous "look-up sessions") to have noticed the contradiction between Jo Lanix's AI descriptions on printed page 122 (Celestial Orb requires AI 50) and the description of the Celestial Orb in appendix C "Celestial Orb ... Required to operate: Nothing. As long as it is on the ship, it just works." I can also point out each instance of where AI is in any way discussed from the History of GALCOM to the brief mention of the library in section 19.2 of Personnel Operations on printed page 125.

In short, is there any way for a player to encourage the crew to actually use the library, are there other methods of increasing the crew's AI levels or not? If not, then I will be unable to use even the ENM for almost another 80 game hours as Lanix has only increased from 19 to 25 in 19 game hours!

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[This message has been edited by Tyrn (edited 08-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Tyrn (edited 08-14-2000).]

[Eclipse]

I think ya need ta take it easy, this mindset is just gonna lead ta trouble. AI takes TIME and alot of it to increase, and as near as I can tell, BC3K seems to have real 60 minute hours. So get used to things taking awhile to do, the AI will eventually get up there but in the meantime, wait and let your people take al the time they need.

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Cmdr. Antilles

Spectre Fleet

Spectre Starstation

ICV- Eclipse

Chief Security Officer

Learning is not compulsory... Neither is survival.

[Charles Lindsey]

quote:

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In short, is there any way for a player to encourage the crew to actually use the library,

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No.

quote:

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are there other methods of increasing the crew's AI levels or not?

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Yes sir, you could use the "send them off duty and then repair at Galcom" solution. (Galcom repairs take major amounts of game time.) I don't use that as a shortcut though. I consider it a cheat even though it is a valid solution in the game. I have occasionally used it when I was going to Galcom anyway. But I don't run to Galcom just to nick some game time (fair enough?).

What's your current game time (new thread? )? If you've taken acm that far you are a better man than me.

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Commander Chavik

Spectre Fleet

ICV Phoenix

Official BC3K Tester

"We Shall Arise From The Ashes"

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Eclipse:

I think ya need ta take it easy, this mindset is just gonna lead ta trouble.

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The mindset is a very simple one, I've seen people roasted alive here, especially those that point out the occasional mistake in this great software. I came in peace and met a potential brush off response (also known as a "Frequently Received Answer - FRA"). My point in showing the contradiction in the manual was not to belittle anyone but to simply illustrate that it was because I have read the manual that I asked my questions here.

quote:

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AI takes TIME and alot of it to increase, and as near as I can tell, BC3K seems to have real 60 minute hours. So get used to things taking awhile to do, the AI will eventually get up there but in the meantime, wait and let your people take al the time they need.

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I realize that this is a realistic (as real as such a thing can be that is) simulation. I was simply hoping to find a way to boost my crew's AI levels so that the artifacts that could actually help me in the game would be of use during the TOD missions and not nearly 80 hours (at the present rate of AI increase) after I complete the TOD missions. Thanks to Charles Lindsey I have the answer to that question.

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Charles Lindsey:

Yes sir, you could use the "send them off duty and then repair at Galcom" solution. (Galcom repairs take major amounts of game time.) I don't use that as a shortcut though. I consider it a cheat even though it is a valid solution in the game. I have occasionally used it when I was going to Galcom

anyway

. But I don't run to Galcom just to nick some game time (fair enough?).

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Thanks for the straight forward answer. I knew about the situation with GALCOM. I disagree about labeling this a cheat, but that's a bit of a personal dilema for each individual. There are inherent dangers in doing that. Some of the missions require that any lag time from the previous mission be used to move from point A to point B within the game universe. Giving the crew shore leave at any star station eats up that valuable time.

quote:

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What's your current game time (new thread?

)? If you've taken acm that far you are a better man than me.

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See thread topic "ACM Game times"

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[This message has been edited by Tyrn (edited 08-15-2000).]

[Supreme Cmdr]

If you have obtained all those artifacts by cheating, then it negates the whole premise of them learning how to use them or JO even bothering to analyze them.

If you obtained all those artifacts by playing the entire ACM, and she doesn't have a high enough AI, I wonder how you actually pulled that off.

And where in the manual does it say that personnel have to use the library for their studies? Page 106 (dunno what manual you are reading, as this does not appear on page 122)of the manual, describing JO's state, is very clear. I should know. I wrote it. They go there periodically on their accord and it doesn't affect their AI to the extent that you are imagining.

And if you actually read Appendix C again, and compare the required to operate description of the others, you will see that required to operate is quite different from JO's AI requirements in order to analyze the artifact for use

Once she has analyzed the artifact, in the case of the Celestial Orb, it just works. In the case of, say the HSD, even after its analyzed, in order to operate, it requires all the listed items plus the listed personnel requirements. The Celestial Orb does not require any personnel to operate. it just works just like the Appendix says.

This is exactly why I didn't want to spend time writing this because its pretty clear. Also, even the version control file has an extensive listing of changes to the artifacts usage.

[Tyrn]

The original message was far too long and was far too defensive.

No cheats. I would have used the playmod file to boost AI were I cheating to gain the artifacts.

I guess it's a novelty to reach this stage of the game and have such low AI levels. I don't want to be a novelty.

I used the 4th edition of the manual for all details I listed.

I just reloaded the docs from the website and page 106 deals with MediBay, not Jo Lanix. Jo Lanix is detailed on pages 121, 122. My earlier post doesn't state that the library is mentioned on page 122 but on page 125.

quote:

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from manual pg 125

LIBRARY Personnel will occasionally visit this area to increase AI.

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I admit that I missed the correlation between pages 121, 122 and the appendix requirements but the game does not hold to this model.

Jo's sitting at 25 in my game and yet the following function (thankfully):

TAS

KR

PAD

JAC

CO

According to the manual none of the artifacts should work at all because Jo isn't smart enough to analyze any of them.

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[This message has been edited by Tyrn (edited 08-15-2000).]

[Tyrn]

Before this all gets out of hand, let me ask this: What have I done wrong to cause my crew's average AI to be right around 28 during TOD4?

I allow each crew member to reach FF 25 and then send them off duty to take a nap, snack, whatever. They can then return to duty when they are rested up or if the situation requires their presence. All other subordinate personnel are rotated either to the medibay (flight engineers and marines) or to off duty status (pilots, sys. engineers, medics, guests) when the group reaches an average FF of 11. Could it be this rotation that is actually causing my AI woes?

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[Eclipse]

Before I try to answer your question let me say my applogies, I've seen alot of new commanders go crazy and end up getting banned. Your post looked similar to how some of those commanders started posting, I didn't want to see that happen. I just read your post wrong.

anyway, to your question. I'm not 100% sure about this, but when the crew is off duty the AI seems to increase slower for me. Might just be my immagination though. anyway I usually send my crew off for rest when the FF reaches arounf 75 to 80. Hope this helps somewhat.

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Cmdr. Antilles

Spectre Fleet

Spectre Starstation

ICV- Eclipse

Chief Security Officer

Learning is not compulsory... Neither is survival.

[Gallion]

You are not doing anything wrong. Several factors must be considered.

• Beginning Officer AI level (when first starting ACM Campaign) and current AI level(s).

• Time - the only way to increase AI level (aside from playmod cheats) for crew is game time. I have not noticed either an increase or decrease in AI level gain by sending crewers to rest at any FF level.

As to why the artifacts ye listed work when RE AI is not at level indicated in the manual, this was changed in the v2.09 patch (or v2.08) and is noted in the version control file.

Bottom line: Ye not be doing anything wrong. Get the game time ran up several game-weeks or more and you'll be able to have all kinds of fun with those new, shinny BC3K toys

TTFN

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Commander Gallion

GCV Graf Spee

*1st Squadron, *Corsair Wing

Stationed, *Starbase Cerberus

"Run Silent, Run Deep"

ICQ# 29486270, EST (GMT-5)

=Wraith Fleet=

Second in Command, Wraith Fleet

Bushi of the Dragon Council

[This message has been edited by Gallion (edited 08-15-2000).]

[Supreme Cmdr]

OK, I see whats going on now. I was going by the printed 2.08 manual, not the online version. Sorry about that, I didn't think to check the online manual because I think the UK pages match the online version, but the Australian one I'm looking at, doesn't (don't ask).

As for the artifacts, I made some changes in 2.09 which affect their use and requirements, as well as AI requirements. These are listed in the VC file.

If those artifacts you have work without being analyzed first, it can be either one of these conditions:

1. Cheats were used

2. JO's AI was at a high level but got reduced due to some injury or fatigue during the game time

3. When I changed the requirements, I either (a)reduced her AI requirement for analysis or ( I disabled the analysis requirement entirely, relying only on the other conditions that do make the artifacts work.

Eitherway, if you do get the other artifacts, don't be surprised if they don't work. btw, I noticed you only have 5 of the artifacts and you are on TOD4. You should have gotten 8 by now. And don't tell me you've be flying clean, clear across the galaxy on raw power, without the HSD artifact!

And I don't think you've done anything wrong to lower your crew AI, the fact is, unless they are on-station, in the library, on an off-ship mission, their AI won't increase. And no matter how high it is, it will drop if they are injured or tired, for extended periods. And yes, if you rotate them too frequently, you are killing their experience rating because they don't learn jack if they're on their room playing cards (and you wonder why a pair of intruders can run rings around a bunch of marines any given Sunday)

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

OK, I see whats going on now. I was going by the printed 2.08 manual, not the online version. Sorry about that, I didn't think to check the online manual because I think the UK pages match the online version, but the Australian one I'm looking at, doesn't (

don't ask

).

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Actually, that is excatly what I had hoped your reply would be. Aren't multiple versions just a lovely fun thing?

quote:

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Eitherway, if you do get the other artifacts, don't be surprised if they don't work. btw, I noticed you only have 5 of the artifacts and you are on TOD4. You should have gotten 8 by now. And don't tell me you've be flying clean, clear across the galaxy on raw power, without the HSD artifact!

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I have all ten now as I have just captured and destroyed both Paxir and Gammula (note that the mission objective says all Gammulan stations must be destroyed which is why I first captured (most of) them and then finished them off to ensure completion of the mission). The crew on Gammula were quite anxious to point me in the right direction as to the location of the RANDOM Device. I was only listing those artifacts that appeared to be functioning. Speaking of that, JAC refuses to repair my armor and also refuses to allow my engineers anywhere near that repair station. It's about to go on an extended shuttle ride.

Actually, I have been motoring around without the assistance of either my HSD or ENM. Awful drudgery to skip from system to system that way but it helped me refine my battle strategies as well.

quote:

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And yes, if you rotate them too frequently, you are killing their experience rating because they don't learn jack if they're on their room playing cards (

and you wonder why a pair of intruders can run rings around a bunch of marines any given Sunday

)

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Ah me, here I thought that I was doing them a favor! I will have to wear my other face:

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Eclipse:

Before I try to answer your question let me say my applogies, I've seen alot of new commanders go crazy and end up getting banned. Your post looked similar to how some of those commanders started posting, I didn't want to see that happen. I just read your post wrong.

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Thank you for the thought, I'm glad to see that someone else remembers the "Old Ways". I lurked quite some long time before posting. I shouldn't have come off quite like the old hand that I did in my first post. If I had actually given a bit more background the whole situation would be quite a bit different. Then again, it wouldn't have been nearly as enjoyable either!

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Speaking of that, JAC refuses to repair my armor and also refuses to allow my engineers anywhere near that repair station. It's about to go on an extended shuttle ride.

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Check his requirements as well as those for the crew as per the artifacts.pdf file. And as for that ride, heh, since you are in Gammulan territory, there are quite a few uninhabited moons there.

Speaking of which, are you using the MapPak add-on? If so, once you've finished the last of the ACM missions, you could take on some surface OPs. In fact, now that you have RANDOM, you may be tempted to flatten each and every planet, with it. No fun in that, I don't think. If you really want to see just how well your fighters perform, send them on SAD missions on a hostile surface zone and watch the fireworks.

quote:

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Then again, it wouldn't have been nearly as enjoyable either!

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hehe, yep!!

[Tyrn]

JAC playing dumb

quote:

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Check his requirements as well as those for the crew as per the artifacts.pdf file. And as for that ride, heh, since you are in Gammulan territory, there are quite a few uninhabited moons there.

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I figure that's the problem as well, it's just that it has this fetish only with the hull armor. Anything else my engineers can repair manually. It's just a wee bit scary to be in Gammula/Gammula with 52% hull armor and an obsessed cyborg running loose.

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[This message has been edited by Tyrn (edited 08-16-2000).]

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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It's just a wee bit scary to be in Gammula/Gammula with 52% hull armor and an obsessed cyborg running loose.

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LOL!!

Actually, if you just put him in a shuttle and then launch the shuttle and have the shuttle hold position or escort the BC, you can sort out the problem and then let him back in again. He is treated as cargo btw, so you won't see him listed in the crew section.

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

LOL!!

Actually, if you just put him in a shuttle and then launch the shuttle and have the shuttle hold position or escort the BC, you can sort out the problem and then let him back in again. He is treated as cargo btw, so you won't see him listed in the crew section.

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I found a way around his persnickety attitude, I assigned one engineer to armor and the rest quickly finished up the remaining repairs. JAC then had nothing to do but work on the armor and we were back in ship shape before anything serious came through the jump point.

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[Supreme Cmdr]

cool! let us know when you nuke your first planet!

btw, in case anyone was wondering, I still haven't written a single ACM mission yet for BCM. So don't be surprised if you find the same 20 missions from BC3K in there. Since you wimps didn't finish them in the first place, what makes you think am gonna waste my time with that again?

Anyway, BCM is a multi-player mayhem, so, at least you'd get to play all 20 ACM missions from BC3K, in co-op mode with your friends.

I am planning to be doing about 20 more new ACM missions though, but thats probably toward the end. But, I wouldn't bet on it if I get into a time crunch.

Now that we've got an aspiring Beta tester (whose name is now in my Beta test invite list, in lieu of this escape) whom I know will play them from start to finish, while the rest focus on, well, breaking the game; I may just do them anyway.

[This message has been edited by Supreme Cmdr (edited 08-17-2000).]

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

cool! let us know when you nuke your first planet!

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Sir! Yes, Sir!

quote:

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Now that we've got an aspiring Beta tester (

whose name is now in my Beta test invite list, in lieu of this escape

) whom I know will play them from start to finish, while the rest focus on, well, breaking the game; I may just do them anyway.

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Thank you, Sir!

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Randolf Carter

Commander - UCV Kadath

[This message has been edited by Tyrn (edited 08-17-2000).]

[Hector Socas Navarro]

quote:

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Now that we've got an aspiring Beta tester (whose name is now in my Beta test invite list, in lieu of this escape) whom I

know will play them from start to finish, while the rest focus on, well, breaking the game

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C'mon, breaking it is much more fun than playing it!

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See you out there, among the stars

Cmdr Nava, GCV Nemesis (Official BC3k tester)