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Korivak

Quick Graphics Question

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Not sure if this should go here or in the BCM Video Issues forum, but I don't want to be the first person to post over there and this isn't really a tech support question so much as a discussion. Please don't kill me sir...

I just bought a new IBM ThinkPad for college and gave my old desktop (complete with my long serving Voodoo3 2000) to my brother, and won't have another desktop until I get a spare thousand dollars or so. My laptop is a work machine, so issues like gaming didn't really factor into things when I bought it, but I was in EB yesterday and saw BCM stuff, which reminded me about the series. So the question is, will my ThinkPad run BCM, or should I wait until I get another desktop to buy it? The biggest issue is the fact that my ThinkPad has an ATI Radeon Mobility 16MB in it, which the SC has nothing good to say about. Should I buy BCM at launch, or would I just be wasting money?

IBM ThinkPad A30 (with RAM upgrade)

Mobile Intel Pentium III processor-M 1.0GHz 133MHz FSB

384MB 133MHz RAM

ATI Mobility RADEON 16MB

Sound Blaster Pro 16 compatible sound system

Windows 2000 Pro

Thanks!

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A few years ago if somebody asked me if they can play games on laptops I would've said NO. I tried running Ms Flightsim 95 on my dads laptop and though it ran the frame rate was appalling.

Nowadays I can't really comment on that as some laptops now (including yours) are faster than my old rig (PIII-800mhz) which I bought last year. That rig ran the demo with no problem.

If I'm not mistaken SC said in an old post(months ago) to send it to him and he'll test it for you.

He was joking you know.....

[ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: Fendi ]

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quote:

The biggest issue is the fact that my ThinkPad has an ATI Radeon Mobility 16MB in it, which the SC has nothing good to say about.

No, he said whatever those driver cooks at ATI come up with taste like crude oil. (Or words to that effect.) The hardware was pure rocket science, if I'm not mixing up sentences.

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"A few years ago if somebody asked me if they can play games on laptops I would've said NO."

Again, I didn't buy it as a gaming system, but if it can play games, bonus!

"If I'm not mistaken SC said in an old post(months ago) to send it to him and he'll test it for you."

My system was just mailed on Friday, so I can't just DL the demo, due to the fact that it's UPS's laptop right now. But there's also that line in the VCF about a Radeon work-around, so the demo isn't a perfect test of preformance.

"No, he said whatever those driver cooks at ATI come up with taste like crude oil. (Or words to that effect.) The hardware was pure rocket science, if I'm not mixing up sentences."

I summerized slightly...

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Point taken. But I guess I really can't comment whether a lap top can play games or not as I've never owned or wanted one.

Heh you'd be surprised of how many laptops that never ever leave the same spot in the house (my dad's for example). I keep telling him that he might as well buy himself a desk top but what would I know, he has 2 masters and I'm just an undergrad.

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My question was actually more focused on the graphics card than the whole system. The SC said that 3dfx and ATI cards were not supported at all in the past, and now he's releasing a patch that, among other things, includes a bug fix for ATI cards. I'm just trying to get an idea of how well (or not) my Radeon will work in the game.

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quote:


Originally posted by Korivak:

My question was actually more focused on the graphics card than the whole system. The SC said that 3dfx and ATI cards were not supported at all in the past, and now he's releasing a patch that, among other things, includes a bug fix for ATI cards. I'm just trying to get an idea of how well (or not) my Radeon will work in the game.


I never said ANYWHERE that I was releasing a patch that includes a bug fix for ATI. Where'd you read that?

As others have pointed out, you'd be best served doing some more research.

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From the VCF: "Revised transform handling code to solve problems on Radeon 7500 and 8500 cards which have a bug in the TnL drivers as well as some DirectX 8 tranform code. See FAQ for more details."

From the Tech Support/General Issues Forum, "Its showtime!!! Now read this..." Topic :"The first VCF is now online. This first patch will be released as soon as the game starts shipping so that Radeon users can play the game out of the box."

Later in the same post: "3DFX Voodoo and Radeon cards are NOT SUPPORTED in ANY shape or form. As such, don't expect ANY patches or fixes going forward."

From the FAQ: "If you have a Radeon DDR, 7500 or 8500, go into Direct3D section of the Display Properties applet and make the

the following changes (if available):

Enable W-Buffer support

Disable the 8 Bit stencil buffer

Enable Error Diffusion Dithering when alpha blending"

Later in the FAQ: "There are issues with the terrain detail level texturing. Until ATI fix their drivers, there is nothing that can be done

Try the -nd1 and -nd2 commandline options, which disable detail levels 1 and 2. These impact the visual quality

of the planetary terrain but alleviates the flickering of the terrain as you move over it at ground level or low altitude."

(Since it gives suggested settings and workarounds instead of simply saying 'Not Supported', I'm not sure if these changes will make it work or if it simply won't work regardless)

From the Soapbox: "Just know that as of today's date, 3000AD does not support ATI's Radeon brand of cards in ANY shape or form until they get their act in gear and release drivers which support the most basic DX feature set."

Later in the same soapbox: "EDIT: [10/27/01] It has been confirmed with ATI that there is a bug in the TnL driver for the Radeon DDR, 7500 and 8500 boards, including other bugs in several DirectX 8 calls to the driver. A temporary hack in BCM prevents some of the visual artifacts on these boards at the expense of visual quality. This will have to do until ATI fix their drivers. The FAQ has been updated with this information and a patch for this will be available once BCM ships this week."

From the post above: "I never said ANYWHERE that I was releasing a patch that includes a bug fix for ATI. Where'd you read that?"

I've done some research, but it seems outright contradictory. We have three reports of a Radeon patch, two suggested workarounds, and four denials of any and all support of Radeon cards, including any patches to make them work. And so, my question was and is, is there any chance of running the game on my ThinkPad with a Radeon card, or should I wait until I get a nVidia powered desktop?

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*waits 3 days for an answer*

You know what? **** it. I'm going to buy the game, even if I can't play it for several months or a year, because I want it. If I can get it to work on my ThinkPad, bonus, but if not, it'll just sit on my shelf until I get a GeForce or ATI gets a clue.

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There shouldn't be any problems, if I look at it correctly. The ATI Radeon Mobility should play just like an older model Radeon. As in, one of those pre-7500/8500 models. Well, it should, just slower.

Good luck.

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Oh, and to answer some of your confusion:

When it's stated as unsupported, then it isn't supported officially by BC3000AD Inc. You can buy the game and play it, but if it doesn't work, you don't get tech support. Simple as that.

When you said bug fix for ATI Cards, SC musta thought you meant that there was a bug in the game that he fixed, which is untrue. It's a hack in the code of the game that temporarily lets the Radeon 7500/8500 work. He's said that it will be unpatched later, once ATI's drivers work up to par. And that makes SC's statement true.

I think that covers that. SC hasn't been totally active on the boards for about a day or so now. Read that link that Laracuente gave you, and you'll understand from SC's view.

quote:

You know what? **** it. I'm going to buy the game, even if I can't play it for several months or a year, because I want it......

Wow. Why are all the new ISS guys so much more dedicated than the others in the New Recruit pool. Better have a word or two with $ilk to step up Orion's recruiting.

Nova, over and out.

[ 11-14-2001: Message edited by: Cmdr Nova ]

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Guest $iLk

Dang it Nova, I've already found one recruit in the past week Waiting for him to register still.

Anyway I'm the recruitment officer for ORION FLEET. I am willing and able to assist you in choosing a fleet or caste that best suits your interests.

If you have any ?'s please contact me [email protected]

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quote:

Wow. Why are all the new ISS guys so much more dedicated than the others in the New Recruit pool. Better have a word or two with $ilk to step up Orion's recruiting.

LOL! the term "best of the best" comes to mind.

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My membership in ISS is debateable...I did stop posting and participating about a year ago. If I can play the game when multiplayer is ready, I'd like to join ISS again, though.

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quote:

The ISS is always looking for some new(or returned) recruits.

Returned recruits........ *sigh*

The story of Private Sharpy and Corporal Neo of the Orion Fleet 22nd Interplanetary Marine Battalion, going on a fateful mission in enemy territory, is pretty well known around Orion Fleet.

quote:

Posted by Epsilon 5 (

here

):

We had hmm... marines (outside of JJ), but they never came back from that away mission on Cyron-IV...

We should have provided them support... or more people

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