New York declares tax war on American Indians Again

[LostInSpace]

Bastards!! Yep New York state is at it again.

trying to break a century old treaty with the Amrerican Indian. Even the federal government said that NY can't enforce the tax if the tribal leaders would not cooperate. The politicians tried this once before and lost but are back at it again. NY even tried strong arm tactics.

Anyway, even if you are not from this state, send the pre-written letter to Gov. Pataki in the first link and express your disgust. American Indians got enough of a shaft by this country let's not let it happen again. What makes it more disgusting is that the news media is keeping mum about the whole thing why is that I wonder. What ever happened to aggresive news reporting?

Honor Indian Treaties

Closing the NY budget gap on the backs of American Indians not to mention on smokers backs too.

A CALL FOR HELP

NYS Not Compelled To Collect Tax on Indian Land

What happened before

[LostInSpace]

Oh yeah, pass the word around and get them involved in this. The more letters sent to Pataki the better. Thanks.

Damn politicians.

[Guest]

Got that right, Oregon and Washington are actually trying the same thing.

The Indians are happy to pay their fair share, but they are getting a bit angry at being the target for all of the states largess.

The Oregon Health program is one such program that they are trying to get the Indian Casinos and smokers to pay for.

There is a tax revolt coming, and the politicians are gonna be wondering what happened.

It's our money fools, NOT yours, and we have about had it with you stealing it.

[LostInSpace]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

Got that right, Oregon and Washington are actually trying the same thing.

The Indians are happy to pay their fair share, but they are getting a bit angry at being the target for all of the states largess.

The Oregon Health program is one such program that they are trying to get the Indian Casinos and smokers to pay for.

There is a tax revolt coming, and the politicians are gonna be wondering what happened.

It's our money fools, NOT yours, and we have about had it with you stealing it.

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Thanks for the heads up on the other two states I'll look into that as well and do the same I've done here in NY send off a letter to them. Anyway, at first that's what they used to sell the cigarette tax increase to the public here in NY that it would go towards health care (anyone buy that I sure don't) but since then you never hear a word about it the only thing I find mentioned is that they want to use this tax to fill up the budget gap and nothing to do with primarily the health care. This is all I see mentioned anywhere including from the mouths of politicians

"The Legislature is counting on the taxes for hundreds of millions of dollars to help close budget gaps. The state Department of Taxation and Finance, however, estimates only $20 million this year and $64.5 million next year."

Maybe if these Basterds cleaned up their books and got rid of the pork barrel spending (not cutting back the essential stuff like police, firedept, education etc..) then I bet they could fill that gap real fast and leave us tax payers alone. To give you an example what I'm talking about I saw a report on the news here in NY that there a numerous school principles that aren't working but are still getting a paycheck of anywhere from $90,000-130,000 grand a year. Oy crap.

What I'm thinking here is if Pataki, in case he runs for president, got letters from all over the country or even Canada and abroad for that matter (since I know alot of users here are scattered all over the globe) he'd back down and realize that he made a boo-boo if he ever wants to run for President. And the same is true to any other state that wants to pick on the American Indians again. So if any of you have problems in your state or know of a state that has this problem maybe you could leave links to the politicians so we can give them all a piece of our mind.

[Scrivener]

In centuries past an unfathomable number of people have been wronged. When you think about it, all land was stolen from someone else at one point. The point is, a group of people does not equal one person who has lived hundreds/thousands of years. My grandfather was Sioux and always felt that you were never owed anything as a result of birth. The way he saw it (And I wholeheartedly agree) is that if you are doing buisness almost exclusively with other americans, you should be responsible for all the same laws and regulations. The problem is that these indian interest groups think that they can have all the benefits of american citizenry without any of the drawbacks... and still call themselves a sovereign nation. They can't sustain themselves on their own economy, and since they draw exclusively from another economy, they are indebted to that economy (and thus, government) like anyone else.

[Guest]

My main thing with the Indians is that we have actual signed treaties with them.

We made agreements, and 9 out of 10 of them we broke.

Well, I don't want us breaking any more treaties with the Indians, we abused them, we took advantage of them, now it's their turn.

That's the only thing that I consider.

If the treaties did not exist, that would be one thing, but those treaties do exist, and I don't feel that we should break them because we want the money that they have worked hard to get, and deserve.

It's their money, they are their casinos, etc.

The Indians own them, they are soveriegn nations within our own borders, and we should not be breaking treaties with the indians because now they have something else that we want.

[LostInSpace]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

My main thing with the Indians is that we have actual signed treaties with them.

We made agreements, and 9 out of 10 of them we broke.

Well, I don't want us breaking any more treaties with the Indians, we abused them, we took advantage of them, now it's their turn.

That's the only thing that I consider.

If the treaties did not exist, that would be one thing, but those treaties do exist, and I don't feel that we should break them because we want the money that they have worked hard to get, and deserve.

It's their money, they are their casinos, etc.

The Indians own them, they are soveriegn nations within our own borders, and we should not be breaking treaties with the indians because now they have something else that we want.

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Remember some else from history who did that all too often sign treaties and break them Hitler.

Besides, if we keep doing that to the American Indians, how is the rest of the world going to perceive our treaties with them(the other countries).

[Wolferz]

The politicians have been and will continue screwing us all into the poor house. Every day there is some power hungry money grubbin SOB somewhere looking to give it to us in the backside for their own gain. It will never stop until we all decide to pick up a weapon and go clubbin. Only problem there is they have used their power and our money to build armies to protect them from just such a scenario.

So break out your vaseline, bend over, grab your ankles and get ready for it. It won't matter how many letters get sent to a politician, They don't care what we think and will continue doing whatever they feel like no matter who it hurts.

Maybe we should elect Jesse Ventura for president and Ahnold for VP and change politics into a contact sport. See how fast all the schisters run for the hills then.

[Epsilon 5]

bah, us french canadians have been invaded by the british centuries ago, and we still have to cope with that *shrugs*

Somewhat sarcastic.

[Guest]

quote:

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Maybe we should elect Jesse Ventura for president and Ahnold for VP and change politics into a contact sport. See how fast all the schisters run for the hills then.

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Not a bad plan actually, but do you want to know what would actually fix this mess?

1: Tax day moved from April 15th to October 15th, just before election day.

2: no withholding, you have to write a check for the whole year on October 15th.

3: Quit electing the Senators by popular election and have them appointed by each state legislature like it was originally.

4: TERM limits, no person could ever serve more then 2 terms for any office. Also, you only get, 1/2 of the paycheck that you recieved in private life. If you made 40K a year, you get 20K, you got 250K you get 125K, etc, etc. Whatever your annual salary was in the private sector, you would get half of that being a senator or a congresscritter. And there would be NO pensions of any sort.

5: All regulations by beauracracies, have to be voted on by the legislature, in other words, NO regs without being accountable.

You wanna see things turn around, this is the way to do it.

[LostInSpace]

quote:

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Originally posted by Epsilon 5:

bah, us french canadians have been invaded by the british centuries ago, and we still have to cope with that *shrugs*

Somewhat sarcastic.

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That's nuttin, what about the IRISH? Same thing there. From the Vikings to the English damn people just won't leave the Irish alone. The only thing is that at least the Vikings left (but not genetically). However, the English refuse to budge!

[Scrivener]

quote:

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That's nuttin, what about the IRISH? Same thing there. From the Vikings to the English damn people just won't leave the Irish alone. The only thing is that at least the Vikings left (but not genetically). However, the English refuse to budge!

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lol! My point is, however, that we didn't sign treaties with any indians living today. The only thing that links those of native american heritage to any kind of treaty is the fact that they are constantly told by their parents that the white folk owe them the world. My great grandparents did the same thing to my grandfather, but he was resonable enough to see that what was done between people hundreds of years ago has nothing to do with him in the here and now.

I'm totally for an indian sovereign nation, but the point is that if they rely on *our* commerce then they should be held as accountable as any other local buisnessness. They don't operate as a seperate country or geopolitical entity as, say, Canada... they operate like a local buisness.

If the government wants to take the hands-off stance then, heck... maybe I should be exempt from taxation as well since I'm one-quarter Sioux.

[Epsilon 5]

quote:

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2: no withholding, you have to write a check for the whole year on October 15th.

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Actually, as a sidenote, it's an option over here - you can select to have that, not by default though. Once it happened to my mother that she was switched to that method accidentally - and she was *****ing because she preferred the other way - simpler, no having to keep money on the side. She eventually got back to the original taxing method.

I understand that what you are trying to eliminate is the illusion that the goverment is giving you more money than taking, but the actual system does have its advantages.

quote:

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Also, you only get, 1/2 of the paycheck that you recieved in private life. If you made 40K a year, you get 20K, you got 250K you get 125K, etc, etc. Whatever your annual salary was in the private sector, you would get half of that being a senator or a congresscritter. And there would be NO pensions of any sort.

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Yes, and if some dude was a company president or some successful lawyer making 5 millions or more a year + bonuses, he's gonna get 2.5 millions a year from the government. Sorry, that idea is flawed.

[Wolferz]

I agree, that idea is flawed, Since Senators and Congress critters work for the state they come from, let the state pay their salaries. We all know how good state jobs are

I still say let's start shootin

[Delta1]

quote:

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They can't sustain themselves on their own economy, and since they draw exclusively from another economy, they are indebted to that economy (and thus, government) like anyone else.

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The Indians roamed the lands of America thousands of years before the Eruopeans arrived. They were able to sustain themselves then. It was not until the english, spaniards, Portugese, French, Dutch, and whomever came, started making claims on land that did not belong to them, and eventually squeezed what was left of the indians into little plots of land, that they became dependent.

I don't see it as them drawing on our economy. We owe it to them. It is thier land that we live on, it was thier ancestors we killed to take it, it was thier trust we broke, it was thier heritage and culture we destroyed.

If they want to build casinos, and actually sustain themselves, build thier own economy, good for them. It is one of the smartest things I have heard. The government has no right to govern them or thier economy. Treaties do exist, and it is time that our government start abiding by them.

[muirjm]

This thing about the Indians is fairly simple in my mind. It was their ancestors who were wronged, not them. How long should we have to keep them on welfare for something that happened to their great great grandfather? I met a few Indians living on a Pomo reservation north of SF. Know what they do? None of them has ever had a job, or even applied for one. They sit around on the reservation and do nothing. They drink a fair bit, smoke some weed, and sit around and dream up bullshit to tell the anthropologists when they come along and ask questions about their "native lifestyle." Now, before everyone accuses me of stereotyping, I will admit that, yes I am. And generally I disagree with stereotypes. But this sort of life is not that uncommon among Indians living on reservations. But take a look at the many Indians who have successfully and completely integrated themselves into our society. Some have good jobs, a family, etc., and are very happy. This proves it is not impossible, as some would have you think. So remind me why society is paying for the lazy ones in the bunch when they are giving society nothing in return? I agree that we did some horrible things to the Indians a few hundred years back. And if it were possible, I would wholeheartedly agree with compensating those people who were wronged. But those are not the people who are alive today.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this and I'm sure I'll offend a lot of people with this, but at least consider it.

[Epsilon 5]

indians also sell cheap cigs, not that i smoke, but people i knew would go to indian reserves to get cig cartons for 15-20 dollars each (can$) instead of i think 70 dollars (they increased the taxes on cigs alot lately)

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by jzmuir:

I met a few Indians living on a Pomo reservation north of SF. Know what they do? None of them has ever had a job, or even applied for one. They sit around on the reservation and do nothing. They drink a fair bit, smoke some weed, and sit around and dream up bullshit to tell the anthropologists when they come along and ask questions about their "native lifestyle."

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Well, think about it. There are lots of societies in which this happens. Ever go into a Black neighborhood? Or a redneck town? No difference. So, why should the Indians be held to a different standard? Oh I get it, unlike the similarly steroetyped ghetto blacks and white rednecks, these indians are asking the man to pay them. Well gee, last time I looked, some of these stereotypes were on welfare. Not sure what the difference is.

Anyway, this whole farce with the native indians is just plain controversial and is never going to end. But the fact is, some of these reservations are making a killing in gambling and other enterprises and I suspect the govt. wants a piece of this untouchable action.

[muirjm]

Good point, SC. In my opinion though, the entire welfare system is f*****. I don't think welfare is really necessary for any ethnic group. I am not racist and I do not have anything against the Indians, or blacks, Hispanics, or whoever. The people that I have a problem with are people who refuse to work and help themselves or society and who expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter, at no expense to them. I realize there are many hard-working Indians, blacks, etc. in this country who have good jobs, and I applaud them. It's the ones who sit around and do nothing and then want the rest of us to take care of them...those are the ones I despise.