Ranks of Poor, Uninsured Rose in 2003

[jamotto]

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[Guest]

Yeah, and so what?

The numbers are typical coming out of a recession, and the points made by the Bush admin are exactly right on.

If Health Insurance were affordable, a lot more people would have it, but government regulation, and out of control lawsuits has driven the costs completely out of control.

Tort reform, and other new laws would bring the costs down so that everyone could afford insurance.

[Guest]

THe US has the BEST health care system in the world, and Universal Health care would quite literally KILL it.

No thank you, Tort reform and less government regulation, kill medicaid and medicare and any other Government paid insurance, and that would allow the free enterprise system to once again work with the health care system and drive consumer costs down.

The system dysfunction is government involvement and government paying medical expenses.

Get government out of it, allow free enterprise to once again regulate it and it will drive the costs down.

I have seen universal health care, NO THANK YOU.

[jamotto]

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

THe US has the BEST health care system in the world, and Universal Health care would quite literally KILL it.

No thank you, Tort reform and less government regulation, kill medicaid and medicare and any other Government paid insurance, and that would allow the free enterprise system to once again work with the health care system and drive consumer costs down.

The system dysfunction is government involvement and government paying medical expenses.

Get government out of it, allow free enterprise to once again regulate it and it will drive the costs down.

I have seen universal health care, NO THANK YOU.

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Actually, if you really wanted to drive health care costs down you would have to get rid of all insurance both public and private.

[street228]

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THe US has the BEST health care system in the world,

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Actually, we have the BEST medical sytems and practices, in the world, but the healthcare system sucks!!

REALITY CHECK!!

[Guest]

The press has been all excited about this little bit of news, the problem is that they failed to take into account a number of demographics from the study.

A: The poverty level has actually dropped 2/10 of a percent from when Clinton was in office, so Clinton had MORE people in poverty while he was in office then Bush has now.

B: The uninsured, a LOT of them are actually the rich, who don't need insurance, the 20-35 year olds, who believe that they don't need insurance.

The poor uninsureds, have actually dropped, there are more POOR INSURED now, then there were when Clinton was in office.

AH, the press, just gotta love them.

And we still have the best health care system in the world, it just needs the government to get out of the way and let Free Enterprise do it's thing.

Canadians travel here for their medical care, Mexicans, Cubans, Europeans, etc, etc.

We have the BEST Health Care SYSTEM in the world, it just needs a little tweaking.

Jamato, please explain your comment about private and public insurance, are you saying that we should have pay for services style healthcare, where you pay for whatever service privately? Or what? As in the old system before the early 1900's. the system that REALLY worked well?

[jamotto]

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

Jamato, please explain your comment about private and public insurance, are you saying that we should have pay for services style healthcare, where you pay for whatever service privately? Or what? As in the old system before the early 1900's. the system that REALLY worked well?

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The United States has had a fee-for-service system for some time now. However, in the 1960's the cost of fee-for-service health care escalated rapidly due to the fact there was an expansion of medical insurance programs. Third-party providers(public and private insurers) began picking up large portions of doctor and hospital bills for insured patients.

In 1982 medical sociologist Paul Starr did a study that concluded that "third party fee-for-service is the main reason for medical inflation because it gives doctors and hospitals an incentive to increase medical services".

in 1997 Gregory L. Weiss and Lynne E. Lonnquist noted that the principle of supply and demand (in regards to health care providers, in competition with each other, should be motivated to offer the best possible service at the lowest price in order to attract customers) does not work well in health care. Patients have no incentive to limit their visits to doctors or hospitals because they have already paid their premiums and feel entitled to medical care, regardless of the cost. Likewise, many patients simply depend on the advice of their physicians to determine what treatment to have; they do not independently decide on what medical care they need.

So basically, insurance of any form really puts the kink in a fee-for-service system. To really fix it you would have to get rid of all insurance if people are not willing to do that (I can relate to that) then just eliminating Medicaid and Medicare with out touching insurance will just hurt more people than it will help.

[ 08-29-2004, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: jamotto ]

[Guest]

Excellent point, thank you for that Jamotto, that is indeed very correct.

I will have to do a little bit more research, but I believe that would indeed be the best answer.

Problem is, if that is indeed the case, then the system needs to be completely demolished and rebuilt from the bottom up.

Which, I am afraid, would probably be impossible, but there has to be an answer in there somewhere that would work.

Thanks for the response.

[Soback]

Now that's a debate, that's how it should be done. Learn from these two people.

[Guest]

I believe that the Medical savings accounts are the first step toward a fee for service type system, the problem that insurance, and fee for services, cannot be mixed.

We may end up with 2 types of doctors, one that takes insurance, and the other doesn't.

Which would be an excellent turn of events.

The more I look at the medical savings account, the more I am convinced that that is indeed what Bush has in mind.

We shall see, but I have to agree with you Jamotto, fee for service style medical care would bring the price WAY down and allow the free enterprise system to set the prices, instead of insurance companies artificially inflating the rates, and will keep people from using the system unless they REALLY need it, again, deflating the prices for all of us.

Thank you Jamotto, you brought up a point that I never really thought about, and the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that you are indeed correct in your assessment.

[Wolferz]

Take a closer look at the Medical Savings Account idea.

The ones that I have seen were presented as a tax shelter to make them more palatible to the consumer but, the major drawback in those plans that really stunned me was; Any unused funds left in the account at the end of the year were forfeited to the account provider.

"Can you say: Highway Robbery?"

I think the singlemost problem with the healthcare system in America is the skyrocketing cost of Malpractice Insurance.

You have a small number of inept medical providers who get their pants sued off for screwing up and everyone pays for it in the end.

Hence the reasoning behind the honorable Mr Bush's misguided notion of limiting awards in malpractice suits.

Secondly, I see no reason why every person in the Medicare/medicaid system couldn't be enrolled in a Group Policy provided by a private sector insurance company.

My third point is directed towards unscrupulous medical providers like hospitals that charge $5.00 each for aspirin or put two suture packs on your bill when only one was used to sew up a 1/4" cut. The latter item I have personally witnessed. When I went to pay the bill at the cashier window I asked for an itemized bill and noticed the second suture pack. I was in the room the entire time that my ex-wife was recieving treatment and the Doctor opened the second suture pack because the nurse had given him the wrong size sutures to begin with, which he had also opened.

The cashier became very nervous when I began to complain about not paying for their mistake and she took it off the bill.

So, most of the rising healthcare costs can be attributed to these types of shenanigans by our providers who don't seem to have a problem with overcharging everyone for their idiotic mistakes or slapping a $5.00 aspirin on your bill when you can get a whole bottle for that price.

Most health insurance companies will pay the bill without question and then pass the costs to all of their subscribers with increased premiums.

Medical care in this country is just another money making scam that is nurtured by our elected officials.

Until the sheople get fed up with all of this crappola and begin to force some changes, it will always be this way.

[jamotto]

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

Thank you Jamotto

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No thanks is required.

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you brought up a point that I never really thought about, and the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that you are indeed correct in your assessment.

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only time will tell, if it is indeed correct.