Unit Refused Iraq Mission, Military Says

[jamotto]

Link

quote:

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By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Army is investigating up to 19 members of a supply platoon in Iraq (news - web sites) who refused to go on a convoy mission, the military said Friday. Relatives of the soldiers said the troops considered the mission too dangerous, in part because their vehicles were in such poor shape.

Some of the troops' concerns were being addressed, military officials said. But a coalition spokesman in Baghdad noted that "a small number of the soldiers involved chose to express their concerns in an inappropriate manner, causing a temporary breakdown in discipline."

The reservists are from a fuel platoon that is part of the 343rd Quartermaster Company, based in Rock Hill, S.C. The unit delivers food, water and fuel on trucks in combat zones.

Teresa Hill of Dothan, Ala., who said her daughter, Amber McClenny, was among in the platoon, received a phone message from her early Thursday morning saying they had been detained by U.S. military authorities.

"This is a real, real, big emergency," McClenny said in her message. "I need you to contact someone. I mean, raise pure hell."

McClenny said in her message that her platoon had refused to go on a convoy to Taji, located north of Baghdad. "We had broken down trucks, non-armored vehicles and, um, we were carrying contaminated fuel. They are holding us against our will. We are now prisoners," she said.

Hill said she was later contacted by Spc. Tammy Reese in Iraq, who was calling families of the detainees.

"She told me (Amber) was being held in a tent with armed guards," said Hill, who spoke with her daughter Friday afternoon after her release. Her daughter said they are facing punishment ranging from a reprimand to a charge of mutiny.

The incident was first reported Friday by The Clarion-Ledger newspaper in Jackson, Miss. Family members told the newspaper that several platoon members had been confined, but the military did not confirm that.

A commanding general has ordered the unit to undergo a "safety-maintenance stand down," during which it will conduct no further missions as the unit's vehicles undergo safety inspections, the military said.

On Wednesday, 19 members of the platoon did not show up for a scheduled 7 a.m. meeting in Tallil, in southeastern Iraq, to prepare for the fuel convoy's departure a few hours later, the military statement said.

"An initial report indicated that some of the 19 soldiers (not all) refused to participate in the convoy as directed," the military statement says.

The mission was ultimately carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said.

Convoys in Iraq are frequently subject to ambushes and roadside bombings.

Staff Sgt. Christopher Stokes, a 37-year-old chemical engineer from Charlotte, N.C., went to Iraq with the 343rd but had to come home because of an injury. He said reservists were given inferior equipment and tensions in the company had been building since they were deployed in February.

"It wasn't really safe," he said. "The vehicles are not all that up to par anyway. The armor that they have is homemade. It's not really armor. It's like little steel rails."

A whole unit refusing to go on a mission in a war zone would be a significant breach of military discipline. The military statement called the incident "isolated" and called the 343rd an experienced unit that performed honorable service in nine months in Iraq.

U.S. military officials said the commanding general of the 13th Corps Support Command., Brig. Gen. James E. Chambers, had appointed his deputy, Col. Darrell Roll, to investigate. An investigative team under Roll is in Tallil, questioning soldiers about the incident, the military said.

"Preliminary findings indicate that there were several contributing factors that led to the late convoy incident and alleged refusal to participate by some soldiers," the military said. "It would be inappropriate to discuss those factors while the investigation continues."

Separately, the commander of the 300th Area Support Group, listed on a military Web site as Col. Pamela Adams, has ordered a criminal inquiry to determine if any soldiers committed crimes under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and, if so, whether disciplinary measures are warranted.

Alabama Republicans Sen. Richard Shelby and Rep. Terry Everett have both requested more information from the Defense Department, their offices said.

The platoon has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Mississippi and South Carolina, said Hill.

Patricia McCook, of Jackson, Miss., said her husband, Staff Sgt. Larry O. McCook, was also among those detained. She said he told her in a telephone call that he did not feel comfortable taking his soldiers on another trip.

"He told me that three of the vehicles they were to use were 'deadlines' ... not safe to go in a hotbed like that," she said, the newspaper reported.

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[Guest]

I will wait for further information before commenting on this one.

If I had Deadlined vehicles, I would want tog et them fixed before doing anything, and sometimes it takes a while to get the proper maintenance guys in to take care of it.

BUt like I said, I am unwilling to comment until further information is given.

This is very broad, and no real specifics are given....

[Charles Lindsey]

I was actually listening to a consertative radio show and the fuel was supposedly contaminated. WTF? But supposedly a whole umm platoon (?) refused to do the job.

To clarify the above paragraph: I was listening to a conservative radio show and one of the parents had called in with this news.

I know no more than that.

[LostInSpace]

According to CNN: Army probes whether GIs broke military code

The military said all 19 members of the Army's 343rd Quartermaster Company -- which has been in Iraq for nine months -- were told to report to duty Wednesday to deliver fuel from Tallil to Taji, a dangerous area north of Baghdad.

Relatives of the soldiers said the troops considered their equipment too unsafe to carry out the mission, according to The Associated Press.

One relative told CNN the gas to be delivered was contaminated with water and was previously refused on a delivery to a less dangerous area.

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"It was not a mutiny," said Maj. William Ritter of the 81st Reserve Support Command

Like Jaguar says not enough real facts with some un-confirmed source information. I wish the media would just shut the hell up already until it gets a complete and factual article. Right now they are trying to make it sound like a revolt of american troops is at hand. Wishful thinking. Too bad Kerry didn't vote for that 87 billion.

[Charles Lindsey]

Pardon me but it does not sound at all like the troops are revolting.

[Charles Lindsey]

But I must say thanks to LostInSpace for corroborating my story.

[LostInSpace]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cmdr Chavik:

But I must say thanks to LostInSpace for corroborating my story.

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Your welcome, but I'd still wait a while till the stories get straightened out. Right now it's the "We Got the News To You First" mentality from the media "even if it's wrong you heard it here first" so pat us on the back please.

[jamotto]

a few changes to the story

quote:

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By JOHN J. LUMPKIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Relatives of soldiers who refused to deliver supplies in Iraq (news - web sites) say the troops considered the mission too dangerous, in part because their vehicles were in poor shape.

The Army is investigating up to 19 reservist members of a platoon that is part of the 343rd Quartermaster Company, based in Rock Hill, S.C. The unit delivers food, water and fuel on trucks in combat zones.

Convoys in Iraq are frequently subject to ambushes and roadside bombings.

Some of the troops' safety concerns were being addressed, military officials said. But a coalition spokesman in Baghdad said "a small number of the soldiers involved chose to express their concerns in an inappropriate manner, causing a temporary breakdown in discipline."

The coalition said in a statement Saturday that the troops are "not being guarded or detained. They are being interviewed. They're taking statements."

But the relatives said they were told the soldiers had been confined.

Teresa Hill of Dothan, Ala., who said her daughter, Amber McClenny, was among in the platoon, received a phone message from her early Thursday morning saying they had been detained by U.S. military authorities.

"This is a real, real, big emergency," McClenny said in her message. "I need you to contact someone. I mean, raise pure hell."

McClenny said in her message that her platoon had refused to go on a fuel-hauling convoy to Taji, north of Baghdad. "We had broken down trucks, non-armored vehicles and, um, we were carrying contaminated fuel. They are holding us against our will. We are now prisoners," she said.

Hill said she was later contacted by Spc. Tammy Reese in Iraq, who was calling families of the soldiers.

"She told me (Amber) was being held in a tent with armed guards," said Hill, who spoke with her daughter Friday afternoon after her release. Her daughter said they are facing punishment ranging from a reprimand to a charge of mutiny.

The incident was first reported Friday by The Clarion-Ledger newspaper in Jackson, Miss. Family members told the newspaper that several platoon members had been confined.

The supply route the soldiers were to have used, is among the most dangerous in Iraq. The military calls it "Main Supply Route Tampa." Many soldiers have been wounded there by roadside bombs and rifle and rocket-propelled grenade fire.

A commanding general has ordered the unit to undergo a "safety-maintenance stand down," during which it will conduct no further missions as the unit's vehicles are inspected, the military said.

On Wednesday, 19 members of the platoon did not show up for a scheduled 7 a.m. meeting in Tallil, in southeastern Iraq, to prepare for the fuel convoy's departure a few hours later, the military statement said.

"An initial report indicated that some of the 19 soldiers (not all) refused to participate in the convoy as directed," the statement said.

The mission was ultimately carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said.

Staff Sgt. Christopher Stokes, a 37-year-old chemical engineer from Charlotte, N.C., went to Iraq with the 343rd but had to come home because of an injury. He said reservists were given inferior equipment and tensions in the company had been building since they were deployed in February.

"It wasn't really safe," he said. "The vehicles are not all that up to par anyway. The armor that they have is homemade. It's not really armor. It's like little steel rails."

A whole unit refusing to go on a mission in a war zone would be a significant breach of military discipline. The military statement said the incident "isolated" and called the 343rd an experienced unit that performed honorable service in nine months in Iraq.

U.S. military officials said the commanding general of the 13th Corps Support Command., Brig. Gen. James E. Chambers, had appointed his deputy, Col. Darrell Roll, to investigate. An investigative team under Roll is in Tallil, questioning soldiers about the incident, the military said.

"Preliminary findings indicate that there were several contributing factors that led to the late convoy incident and alleged refusal to participate by some soldiers," the military said. "It would be inappropriate to discuss those factors while the investigation continues."

Separately, the commander of the 300th Area Support Group, listed on a military Web site as Col. Pamela Adams, has ordered a criminal inquiry to determine if any soldiers committed crimes under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and, if so, whether disciplinary measures are warranted.

The platoon has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Mississippi and South Carolina, said Hill.

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[jamotto]

U.S. Mutiny Soldiers Say Army Ignored Complaints

quote:

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By Sue Pleming

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. soldiers who staged a mutiny and refused to go on a convoy in Iraq (news - web sites) felt commanders ignored their plight when they complained about the safety and condition of their vehicles, their relatives said on Monday.

Ricky Shealey, father of one of 18 soldiers who face discipline for refusing an order to go on a convoy last week, said his son's commanders dismissed complaints they were being asked to transport contaminated fuel in broken-down trucks.

"The command just totally ignored them when they told them this fuel was contaminated and they were still gonna send them out on this mission with contaminated fuel. They were completely aware of this situation and I believe it's a command issue, not a soldier issue," Shealey told CBS' "Early Show."

Refusal to obey orders, especially in a combat zone, is a serious military offense.

Anxious to squash any suspicion of U.S. troop morale or discipline problems in Iraq, the Army said on Sunday it was investigating the "isolated incident" and preliminary findings indicated the soldiers were worried about maintenance and safety.

Last year, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, complained to the Pentagon his supply situation was so poor it threatened the Army's ability to fight, said an official document revealed by The Washington Post on Monday.

Army officials said most of Sanchez's concerns had been addressed and they were keeping a close eye on the situation.

Civilian and military convoys in Iraq, where more than 1,000 U.S. troops have died and thousands have been wounded since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003, are frequent targets for roadside bombings and other ambushes.

FRANTIC CALL

The 18 soldiers refused to accompany fuel tankers on a supply run from southeastern Iraq to Baghdad on Wednesday, arguing the fuel was contaminated and their unarmored vehicles were in bad shape.

The tankers had previously been carrying jet fuel and had not been cleaned before the new cargo of diesel fuel was loaded, said Teresa Hill, who received a frantic telephone message from her daughter Spec. Amber McClenny.

"Hi mom, this is Amber. This is a real, real big emergency. I need you to contact someone, I mean raise pure hell. We yesterday refused to go on a convoy. ... We had broken down trucks, non-armored vehicles and we were carrying contaminated fuel," said McClenny in the message aired on U.S. networks on Monday.

Hill told NBC's "Today" show her daughter referred to the convoy as a suicide mission.

"She felt like the Army was just leaving them out there to drown," said Hill, who said her daughter feared the contaminated fuel might be put in a helicopter that could ultimately crash and add to the U.S. death toll in Iraq.

In an interview with ABC's "Good Morning America" show, Johnny Coates said his son complained in one instance his truck broke down four times on the way to delivering fuel.

Like other relatives, Coates called his son a good soldier who felt he had to take a stand. "I think he did the right thing. He lived to talk about it for one more day."

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[Soback]

Contaminated fuel, and helicopter would crash because of mixing of Jet and diesel? That's a moronic statement. Yes, technically the fuel is contaminated, but only technically. Jet and diesel are so close to each other that you can even use them interchangiably in trucks (for a while). As for helicopter crashing, that's just plain out laughable, a jet engine will burn anything, and I mean anything that burns, literally. Pilots can even take on avgas (like car gas but 100 octane) and burn it in a jet engine if no other fuel is available, and avgas is a hell of a lot different then diesel.

Just to give you an example:

- Your car will die if it takes regular gas but you fuel it up with diesel.

- A diesel engine will burn diesel or jet fuel.

- A jet engine will burn diesel, jet fuel, regular gas, avgas, literally anything that burns It might not be too healthy if you put something totally different in it but it will work, but jet fuel, and I mean 99.7% jet fuel (tanks weren't scrubbed, so there was a little film of diesel on the walls) is completly and totally fine.

She should've stuck to what she knows best and that's leaning towards no armor or something, not spewing bullshit like she didn't want a helicopter crash. She just threw that in to add weight to her argument and to anyone who knows fuels it does quite the opposite. It's like you didn't go on some trip, and after it turned out to be a huge deal, you started racking up reasons and excuses to just throw anything out there to see how much will stick. (some things are legitimate, but the fact that she is throwing other things in there gives it the impression that she knows she messed up) otherwise a person would just give one or two main facts and plain stick with them without sidenotes that are not her concerns "oh, I thought the helicopter would crash" that doesn't impact her, her mission is to deliver supplies from point A to point B and in paperwork document this that and the other, that's that, period.

[Guest]

I have heard a bit more on this story as well.

A: Contaminated Fuel? Yeah right, helicopters have a multifuel turbine engine that is VERY close to the M-1 abram engine, and they will BURN ANYTHING. INCLUDING DIESEL!!!

If there is NOTHING else available, the choppers will fill up with Diesel, although they do like JP-4 better, but M-1's run on diesel, but will take JP-4 if there is no diesel around, just as the 2 1/2 ton trucks, HUMMVEES, 5 ton's etc.

B: You CANNOT armor a fuel tanker, it is too heavy as it is, if you armor them, the damn things won't move.

This is looking more and more like a Democrat tactic, get a unit that are sworm Democrats, and then sacrifice them for a sound bite.

OUR TROOPS are mutinying in Iraq.

Well, SORRY, 17 soldiers does NOT a mutiny make.

Again, I will continue to hold judgement until I hear more, I have numerous people looking into it in Iraq right now, and will hopefully have some sort of response in the next few days, BUT, the military is holding this one close, and I mean VERY close to the vest.

[Kevin Trotter]

The democrats put them up to this? Jag you have said many many things I disagree with but never ,never until now have you said something maliciously stupid. Do you really think those folks are thinking about the election over there? If you do you have most certainly gone round the bend.Beware the people sneaking up to your house..they arent the ATF, they are from the loony bin.

That unit refused orders and they will be dealt with. For whatever the reasoning we can be assured it was not politically motivated and I'm confident that Command will get to the bottom of it. I am concerned however about the wisdom of leaving reservist posted for such a long time and the effect on the moral of the professional soldiers they support. I also question the widsdom of mounting a logistically difficult mission in a hot zone with what appears to be universally substandard equipment and vehicles.

[Charles Lindsey]

May I?

Mutiny: I already said nope and the media has backed off the mutiny angle. Discipline problem? Possibly.

Contaminated fuel: Plausible at first, coulda been water or dirt. But the army swears no so ok I'll believe that part.

I know something about fuel as well. My boss buys fuel for the fleet. We have one tanker. A six wheeled job with the little small 1000 gal (2000?) tank attached to the body. It's called a bobtail. There is no such thing as cleaning a tanker. At least not between loads. You run gas and empty the tank then you fill her up with diesel and vice versa. The tiny amount of either left in the tank does not harm the other. You wouldn't want a substantial ratio but cleaning? No.

Armor a tanker: I read somewhere they were doing that. But just the cab. While Diesels are powerful I tend to agree with Jag. Armor the whole thing and it couldn't get out of its own way.

Rag tag units: That's the gist of the rest of the story. Delapidated (relatively) equipment.

Here I believe is the crux of the story. Even civilians call Guardsmen "weekend warriors". They probably felt slighted because the regular army got the good stuff and they got what was left over. They probably did believe it was dangerous equipment. Perhaps rightfully so. Even the army spokesman took it offline for a maintenance review.

I'll wait for more along with everyone else.

[Soback]

She specifically said contaminated fuel BECAUSE it previously carried diesel and was NOT cleaned out before putting Jet fuel in the tank. As for aviation (that fuel was to be used in helicopters), you absolutly have to clean the tank if a different fuel is to be loaded in it, it's the law, otherwise it's considered contaminated (I have been trained in fuel control). That's why in my post I concieded that yes, it was contaminated, but only technically because a jet engine will still burn it, and it's actually approved to put other fuels in jet engines in a pinch. In a combat environment it's a bullshit statement because you can NOT adhere to every single standard control and have to bend them to complete the mission. Mission was: fuel for the helicopters, is it contaminated, yes, will the helicopters be able to take it and fly to complete their missions without any negative effects on their engines, YES, so you go and do YOUR mission.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Race Bannon IV:

The democrats put them up to this? Jag you have said many many things I disagree with but never ,never until now have you said something maliciously stupid. Do you really think those folks are thinking about the election over there? If you do you have most certainly gone round the bend.Beware the people sneaking up to your house..they arent the ATF, they are from the loony bin.

That unit refused orders and they will be dealt with. For whatever the reasoning we can be assured it was not politically motivated and I'm confident that Command will get to the bottom of it. I am concerned however about the wisdom of leaving reservist posted for such a long time and the effect on the moral of the professional soldiers they support. I also question the widsdom of mounting a logistically difficult mission in a hot zone with what appears to be universally substandard equipment and vehicles.

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NOt politically motivated?

Yeah, I am gonna call my mama and tell her to raise hell because I just did the Dumbest thing that I have ever done in my life, so I need the media to come in and bail my ass out.

The Democrats so CONVENIENTLY use this as some sort of example that ALL of our troops are short of supplies, driving unarmored trucks etc.

The Democrats are throwing a Hissy fit, and they were on it from the getgo... and I mean the GETGO...

Not an hour passed before these morons were on this like Flies on you know what....

The Democrats can't even take something like this and take off with it in 6 hours, without having something set up in advance.

Give me a break.

I am VERY suspicious, you may not agree with it, but it is WAY TOO convenient as far as I am concerned.

They needed this, and OMG, they got it in the nick of time, just enough time to really make a HUGE deal of it before the election.

Yeah, right, sure thing Race....

Dan Rather got EXACTLY what he was asking for too, and OMG, they turned out to be fakes and a setup, what a concept.

The Dem's are DESPERATE, and are doing everything and ANYTHING to try and win.

[jamotto]

update from CNNCommander relieved of duty in Iraq

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by jamotto:

update from CNN

Commander relieved of duty in Iraq

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And he deserved it too...

When your soldiers feel that they can question direct orders, and refuse a mission, then you are obviously NOT up to command standards....

[Eclipse]

I don't believe it was purposfully planned by the democrats but will they use it to their advantage? yes.

[Guest]

The Democrats have pushed this one WAY beyond what it actually is.

And yes, considering how desperate they are at this point, it doesn't surprise me a bit.

The Democrats have all kinds if interesting October surprises to show their desperation, and it is becoming quite incoherent.

Well, when Bush wins by 8 points, which is where the Harris poll, the ONLY right poll in 2000, puts him, then we won't have to deal with the Democrat nonsense that they have been planning for the last few months.