Some random thoughts of mine on Conservatism and my beliefs

[Guest $iLk]

The Wikipedia entry is very informative on the ideas of Conservatism.

Why am I bringing it up? I've been reconsidering my political stance. I'm trying to determine what group I fall into... the classic Conservatives (probably not), or the Ideological Conservatives, or the Neo-Conservatives.

I'm caught somewhere in-between Ideological Conservatism and Neo-Conservatism... although I'm starting to back away from Neo-Conservatism... I'm still trying to come to some kind of compromise on what is best.

For those who this is going way over your head... I'm not the kind of person that identifies well in a group. I've got a lot of beliefs, and structure in my life that gives me unique views on many things - and I wasn't paying attention to politics much before the 2000 election.

Like Arnold Swartzenegger spoke about in his convention speech... I had deeply held beliefs, without knowing what to call them. And I found myself agreeing with most of what Conservatives have to say. Liberalism to me is anathema to common sense. I do not understand liberals, or rather - I do understand them but I am deeply disturbed by their over-reaching beliefs and lack of individuality it seems. Each talking point released from top to bottom is repeated ad infinitum, word for word.

There are some Conservatives who buy into the Ra-Ra cheerleading of Sean-Hannity types and repeat talking points - but I always try to reason out things for myself... and often-times I reach conclusions based on given facts that do not jive with the liberal view.

I don't know what made me a Conservative... I do know that I've always been patriotic - I looked forward to each 4th of July not for the fireworks, but for what it symbolized. I learned about our founding fathers, and even though in school I had teachers with liberal views, they just felt wrong.

I was an A student, I received presidential certificates from then president-Bill Clinton. I one time remember asking my teacher to take down an anti-American protest picture that was taken from Saddam's Iraq back in 1993...

I didn't care why they were protesting, and I didn't understand what my teacher was trying to convey. I just told her that I didn't believe that it should be displayed in the class-room. I knew then that it wasn't proper to disrespect our country, or disrespect or flag. Freedom of speech wasn't on my mind then, I just believed strongly in black and white terms... right and wrong. After asking her about 3 times, she finally removed it from her board. Probably because I was her favorite student she didn't hold my patriotism against me. Maybe I'd grow out of it after all. I was 11 at the time.

I rarely spoke to my parents or grandparents about their political beliefs... my grandfather voted for Bill Clinton, Ross Perot during the 90's. I wasn't sure who my father voted for.

So my beliefs developed over time... and I can't pin-point any defining moment, any characteristic, or anyone who tried to push me one way or the other. I had a normal childhood like anyone else - but even though I didn't even know the word liberal, I felt an underlying current of wrongness in certain actions, and beliefs held by many.

In the 2000 election, and leading up to it - I was strongly energized after hearing Bush speaking of tax cuts, and a promise of conservatism, which I had learned jived with much of my beliefs. I even spent the first year of Bush's term *****ing about his lack of conservatism on certain issues.

Then, after 9/11 I was pushed toward Neo-Conservatism. Before 9/11 I held isolationist views, get the **** out of the UN, screw the world, close our borders, etc.

After 9/11 which was a defining moment, I started to shift. Before the Iraq war, I felt that it was a wrong move, I didn't agree with it 100% - to be more accurate, I felt like we had screwed up by leaving him in power in 1992. I wanted Iraq taken down before 9/11... but I didn't want Iraq taken down because of 9/11.

Yes, I believe that we had other targets of great importance. But after we invaded Iraq, and the more I learned about the human rights abuses, and the things that happened under his regime... even if we never find WMD's, or the Al Qaqqa weapons: I'm satisfied that in the end this was a humanitarian effort.

Is it a quagmire? When are the troops coming home?

Well... when are the troops coming home from Bosnia that Clinton sent there in 1993?

I'm sorry... but even though I've had some misgivings about the war, I still feel the undercurrent of wrongness in liberals attempting to capitilize on our hesitation about the Iraq war. I've seen threads started on "How can you still support Bush because of..."

And the best way I can point this out...

If it's true that Bush pulled this country far to the right using 9/11 as an excuse - then Kerry's administration is going to try to pull this country far to the left using Iraq as an excuse.

The one wasn't acceptable to you, and the other isn't acceptable to us. Kerry hasn't run away with popular support in this election... because you've aligned yourself with someone who is doing the exact same thing Bush has done... running away with an ideological bent based on an excuse. Two sides of the same coin.

Vote for what you believe in... don't let the 'anti-Bush' argument, or the 'vote for Nader is a vote for Bush' argument stand in your way if you do not believe in what Bush or Kerry is doing. 3rd parties are far-under-rated. I think that many of us here could collaberate and come up with something better than these two clowns have to offer us. Either way - 4 days to go. Make it count for something.

[Wolferz]

You have been very quiet of late, Silk and your words above could light a fire on a beacon of hope. but, in regard to your thoughts of third party candidates I say this, The third party candidate has been removed from the ballot in this state by legal wrangling at the behest of one of the main 2 parties.

So my third choice has been taken away by lawyers and a Judge, leaving me with only two choices, neither of which I would give the time of day much less vote for.

Our political system is all but irretrievably broken and I am frustrated because I have no answer on how it can be fixed, short of a civil war.

Case in point:

I pulled my Voter Registration Card from it's storage place in my desk drawer this morning and frankly I am most displeased as to what is printed on the back of it, albeit:

THIS REGISTRATION IS PERMANENT

only as long as you continue to live within your present voting district. Notify the Registration Commission promptly in writing if you change your address.

Please check your election district for accuracy.

if you feel we have made an error call the voter services office.

All pretty standard understandable stuff, except for maybe the ORDER to notify them if you move. but here's where it gets good at the bottom of this paragraph;

WARNING This card relates only to date of issue:

Not Proof of right to vote.

err what was that last line again????

And why did I register to vote in this district and receive this nifty card if it isn't proof that I'm entitled to vote?

What am I going to have to do to cast my ballot, show up with Drivers license, birth certificate and criminal background check?

Personally, I am of the opinion that our Frelled up government controls too much in regard to our every day lives and they seem to have a special knack for doing so. Right down to voter registration. If seeing shit like this doesn't send the red flag up in your mind, then nothing ever will and you will be doomed to being controlled for the rest of your life.

.

[Kevin Trotter]

Where have you been $ilk? You have written a well thought out reasoned post that does arouse hope; at least it does in me. While I answer the question " are you a liberal or conservative?" by saying no, I have what I consider progressive political views with moderate leanings. For example I beleive in a strong reasoned military, I am against abortion,and I beleive in the second ammendment. Because I dont support rampant militarism, the pro-life movement or the right to own an automatic weapons I am pigeon-holed as a weak kneed liberal.

The truth is in many ways we have become two Americas, and I hope this too shall pass.