Florida judge denies latest appeal in Schiavo case

[Wolferz]

"More Cider, SC?

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by nomad:

On top, seems you urgently need some course about courtesy... By the way, if all your agressivity is related to an inferiority complex, go better look for professional help instead of attempting to be automatically acid with those who don't agree with your extremist views. Oh sorry, I was forgetting... This would require replacing egocentrism and arrogance by wisdom... LMAO

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Poor Nomad. brought up in morally relativistic Europe, it is sad to see the downfall of such a great region.

When wrong is right, and right is wrong, then indeed it is the time for all good men to say enough.

It is time for brainwashed sheeple such as relativists to charge off the cliffs with the other sheeple as they charge off blindly into oblivion.

This is a black and white issue, nothing relative about it.

When a death row inmate can get a neuvo trial in the federal courts, a death sentence for an innocent should get just as much.

Poor Nomad, intellectual elitism and relativism has detroyed Europe, and your upbringing and attitude proves it to me every day.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by nomad:

Of course, Jag. And when you say "right", it must be "right" for the remaining 6,5 billion folks on this planet...

Still, you did not address any of the issues I raised. Why don't you try to be creative ? What alternatives would you contemple in the Schiavo case ?

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There were a number of alternatives, give custody to her parents and allow them to take care of her.

Divorce Terri and allow the courts to decide her new guardian.

Remove her from Hospice and put her in a rehabilitation facility instead. Her history show that she was capable of making progress, but every time that she would make progress her husband would stop it, or move her to another facility.

There were a number of alternatives, but since the judge is prodeath, the lawyer is prodeath, and the hospice is prodeath, they chose to kill her, when in fact there was supposed to be enough money to care for her for the rest of her life, when there was originally plenty that could have been done for her.

This case was used by prodeath people to help the American people accept Euthanasia and that a court order could not be fought.

Judges are NOT god, and their word is NOT the end word.

Right now, the judge has been kicked out of his church, as he should have been, Michael is in hiding, as he should be, and the lawyer is having a hard time getting a new case, as it should be.

People that are prodeath as these people are, should be treated as Pariahs, and they are, which is a good thing as far as I am concerned.

One good thing about this case, the legislative bodies and the executive branches will hopefully get the tingod mentality of the judiciary under control.

[Rael]

Hmm.. honestly i haven't paid that much attention to the Schiavo case, hence i cant give a profound opinion. Just another example of a hype for an example case. No one hypes thousands of starving people a day. But i see, that this is a controversial topic, and should also be adressed.

BUT i think, nomad's statement about Jag should go to a dictatorship country that supports his views.. look, the laws are not ultimate. The PEOPLE are what makes up a country, not its government, nor laws, nor jurisdiction. Those are all tools for the "machine" that we created to keep ourselves regulated. Judges can be wrong, laws can be wrong, everything can be. The only thing that (usually) is fail safe, is the feeling that you have in your breast. Apart from all set-up morales, the feeling that something is either right and good, under the eyes of god, or not.

Personally i think (bash me), that many disabled people are "kept alive" by the care institutions. Also, their care is mostly a joke. They can do whatever they want, those people are not gonna talk back now, are they? I know this is a generalization, but i've often seen it. Also, some friends have told me about their experiences in the healthcare (in Germany u can either do 9 months of military service, or social service), and they are mostly bad. I know there are other cases too. But to keep someone alive just to turn them around in the bed 2 times a day, feed and bathe them, while the only thing they can do is drivel out of their mouth.. that is not living.

I'm talking about the hard cases here. No one knows if they "want" to live, or die, or what of their mind and soul is still there and observing. No one will be able to tell either.

If the things said about that Woman's husband are correct, then the judges might have been largely wrong. Still, can you see inside the husband's mind? What if the said things are right, but he still honestly feels that she wants or deserves to die? I think it's not for us to make the big opinions here.

I hope you guys are not gonna rip each others brains out. By the way, shame on you for saying such bad things about us Europeans. We all know this part of the world is the less stupid one. (on the stupidity scale America scores a clear 9.. we are somewhere in the 7's) profound opinion, eh?

[Guest Remo Williams]

quote:

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By the way, shame on you for saying such bad things about us Europeans. We all know this part of the world is the less stupid one. (on the stupidity scale America scores a clear 9.. we are somewhere in the 7's)

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NP thats what friends are for.

I was thinking more like an 8, eh but thats close enough!

[Guest]

quote:

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The pro-euthanasia group End-of-Life Choices, formerly the Hemlock Society, has started a $60,000 ad campaign in Florida, using the plight of Terri Schiavo as a way to make its case and expand its membership.

The campaign includes newspaper ads in Tallahassee, Orlando, Tampa and Miami, and speeches throughout the state this week by officials of the pro-assisted suicide group, according to LifeNews.com.

Pat Anderson, attorney for Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, said she was disappointed the group chose to use Terri's case as a springboard to advocating that disabled persons like Terri be killed. "Floridians need to know that this is the Hemlock Society with a new name, and they are trying to hide their pro-euthanasia agenda," Anderson told the Associated Press. "They are using Terri Schiavo to promote euthanasia."

The real goal of End-of-Life Choices appears to be government funding of euthanasia.

Faye Girsh, executive director of the former Hemlock Society, said her groups supports Medicaid funding for assisted-suicides.

Pro-life organizations say the group spends its time promoting assisted suicide rather than pain relief for patients or helping them find hospice care to reduce the desire to end their life. In contrast, the legitimate battle is the fight to obtain lifesaving medical treatment when it is denied - in cases like that of Terri, Jason Childress and others.

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Ain't we got fun?

BTW, Felos thinks that he can read a patients soul through eye contact, and is able to tell if they wish to die or not, so far, EVERY ONE of the people he has looked in the eyes has wished to die.

WOW, imagine that?

[Charles Lindsey]

Link?

plagiarism? Not quite but close.

[Charles Lindsey]

Anything below the neck that leaks or squeaks is taboo.

Think about it.

[Guest]

Just to finish off this thread with some GOOD news....

Zogby

quote:

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Zogby Poll: Americans Not in Favor of Starving Terri Schiavo

Polls leading up to the death of Terri Schiavo made it appear Americans had formed a consensus in favor of ending her life. However, a new Zogby poll with fairer questions shows the nation clearly supporting Terri and her parents and wanting to protect the lives of other disabled patients.

The Zogby poll found that, if a person becomes incapacitated and has not expressed their preference for medical treatment, as in Terri's case, 43 percent say "the law presume that the person wants to live, even if the person is receiving food and water through a tube" while just 30 percent disagree.

Another Zogby question his directly on Terri's circumstances.

"If a disabled person is not terminally ill, not in a coma, and not being kept alive on life support, and they have no written directive, should or should they not be denied food and water," the poll asked.

A whopping 79 percent said the patient should not have food and water taken away while just 9 percent said yes.

"From the very start of this debate, Americans have sat on one of two sides," Concerned Women for America's Lanier Swann said in response to the poll. One side "believes Terri's life has worth and purpose, and the side who saw Michael Schiavo's actions as merciful, and appropriate."

More than three-fourths of Americans agreed, Swann said, "because a person is disabled, that patient should never be denied food and water."

The poll also lent support to members of Congress to who passed legislation seeking to prevent Terri's starvation death and help her parents take their lawsuit to federal courts.

"When there is conflicting evidence on whether or not a patient would want to be on a feeding tube, should elected officials order that a feeding tube be removed or should they order that it remain in place," respondents were asked.

Some 18 percent said the feeding tube should be removed and 42 percent said it should remain in place.

Swann said her group would encourage Congress to adopt legislation that would federal courts to review cases when the medical treatment desire of individuals is not known and the patient's family has a dispute over the care.

"According to these poll results, many Americans do in fact agree with what we're trying to accomplish," she said.

The poll found that 49 percent of Americans believe there should be exceptions to the right of a spouse to act as a guardian for an incapacitated spouse. Only 39 percent disagreed.

When asked directly about Terri's case and told the her estranged husband Michael "has had a girlfriend for 10 years and has two children with her" 56 percent of Americans believed guardianship should have been turned over to Terri's parents while 37 percent disagreed.

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Amazing the answers you will get when Americans are asked fairly, and accurately.

Gives me some faith in the American people.

[Guest DocHoliday]

In that article I posted (if anyone read it) it was also said that when faced with an issue or dillema that people DO know or have EXPERIENCED, the Americans will react quickly, accurately and correctly. Any people for that matter will if you ask me.

[semi-offtopic brooding]

It is amazing to see what skewed results one gets if they ask the population on foreign matters (and I don't mean Americans necessarily!!). Usually all the stereotypes you can imagine will pop up, all the dogma, propaganda or whatever instruments the country uses to manage the perception of its population.

But you CANNOT fool a person in matters they do know. Makes you feel kind of safe and scared at the same time, because you sort of realize the extent to which you CAN influence and/or understand the things around you.. And it's more or less narrow. Gives a huge window of opportunity for manipulation and abuse.

Which is why, although I love the (utopian) idea of a global village, teamwork and cooperation, realistically I do think its better if you don't mess with cultures, countries or re(li)gions you don't understand or approve of. Sort of what Jag says when asked about whether US should care about others or not. But a little different nonetheless. Maybe it's a language difference here, but when I hear "I don't care about you" I understand it, "you may drop dead for all I care". You could also interpret it though as "feel free to do whatever you want, as long as you don't step on my toe." The second is cool with me and would do wonders to improve the world, the first interpretation is not acceptable in a modern society and its interaction with others.. imho.

[/semi-offtopic brooding]

Cheers,

Doc