Americas Army

[Soback]

Humble is subjugation.

Hum-ble = 1-not proud or haughty ; not arrogant or assertive, 2- offered in a spirit of deference or submission (appology) 3, ranking low in some hierarchy or scale (insignificant), 4 - to destroy the power, independence or prestige of.

You go ahead and be humble, I, Jaguar and people like us, we know our own worth. And don't you dare try to trap us into guilt that not being humble is bad. We know better, you destroy our childrens minds with bs like that, they grow up not knowing their potential, throttling their brains, and grow up subjugated and taken advantage of by every thug and passerby.

Proud, assertive, non submissive, high ranking, independent, prestigious, that's all the oposites of humble. I am that man, NOT HUMBLE, and our troops are those soldiers, NOT HUMBLE.

The true definition of humble in that dictionary should be:

Humble - Ashamed, lousy, submissive, apologetic, low ranking, weak.

As you notice, it puts NON - in front of all the good qualities of man.

[ 08-04-2005, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: Soback ]

[Guest]

I start, and you finish Soback, I just love it.

My brother from another mother!! LOL

[Soback]

That is how dictators, kings, slave drivers and opressors have subjugated able men for ages. They have been telling them to be humble, to produce, they devalued your ability and told you to be ashamed of it because being great is bad, bad because there's other men who can't do something as good as you can, and therefore you should be humble.

That's why we had the dark ages, that's why the work of great man hasn't been valued, or rather it has been valued but the knowledge of the value of their work has been kept from these great men. Those who are profiting from the labor of these men are terrified that they will find out and realize their own value, that's what being humble IS.

You pretty much ignored my last two posts, maybe there were too long for you to read, however, this here is the condensed version.

[Cruis.In]

yes I know your kind very well, the bullies in school and the people who like to unfair others.

[Soback]

You are confused Cruis.In. The bullies in school FORCE their will on other children. They HUMBLE, other children to them. Did you notice that, HUMBLE. You told me to look up the definition, I did, now match the definition with that sentence, see if that makes sence. Bullies HUMBLE others, and you tried shaming Jag for not being HUMBLE? Who is the bully, you or I and people like me? Who tried to make the other submit by using their own guilt upon them? Surprised that there's people there who know their own worth?

People like me do not FORCE anyone. We deal with other people, deals where both agree, one in exchange for another, when we don't then there's no exchange, no interaction. We know our worth, and we do not give out the products of our mind nor our labor for free.

Your post Cruis.In. Your answer, a single sentence, a failed insult. That's what your argument can be reduced to by logic, reason, and reality being the final arbiter.

[Guest Remo Williams]

Ok Gentlemen this topic isn't about the debaters stick to the facts and the topic subject.

Thanks.

[John Prezioso]

Cruis in - for what its worth, I get what your trying to say about humility. Humility IS an admirable trait. As an (imperfect) Christian, I feel obligated to maintain an outward humility. But that does not mean I should shed my dignity.

I subscribe to the "Talk softly and carry a big stick" mindset.

[Cruis.In]

In Christianity, humility, or meekness, is seen as a virtue, encompassing three skills:

1. yielding ones rights and possessions to God,

2. earning the right to be heard rather than demanding a hearing, and

3. responding properly to anger when others violate one's personal rights.

[Soback]

None of those three are definitions of HUMILITY.

1. is a half definition for belief in God.

2. is just a statement that you need to earn things, not demand them.

3. responding properly to anger when others violate one's personal rights? To who's anger, to those who violate your rights, or do you mean managing your own anger? That didn't make any sence.

In any case, like I said, NONE of those three are definitions of HUMILITY. I have already DEFINED it for you. Here let me show you again:

"Hum-ble = 1-not proud or haughty ; not arrogant or assertive, 2- offered in a spirit of deference or submission (appology) 3, ranking low in some hierarchy or scale (insignificant), 4 - to destroy the power, independence or prestige of.

You go ahead and be humble, I, Jaguar and people like us, we know our own worth. And don't you dare try to trap us into guilt that not being humble is bad. We know better, you destroy our childrens minds with bs like that, they grow up not knowing their potential, throttling their brains, and grow up subjugated and taken advantage of by every thug and passerby.

Proud, assertive, non submissive, high ranking, independent, prestigious, that's all the oposites of humble. I am that man, NOT HUMBLE, and our troops are those soldiers, NOT HUMBLE.

The true definition of humble in that dictionary should be:

Humble - Ashamed, lousy, submissive, apologetic, low ranking, weak.

As you notice, it puts NON - in front of all the good qualities of man."

AND HERE'S HUMILITY FROM CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07543b.htm

"The word humility signifies lowliness or submissiveness an it is derived from the Latin humilitas or, as St. Thomas says, from humus, i.e. the earth which is beneath us. As applied to persons and things it means that which is abject, ignoble, or of poor condition, as we ordinarily say, not worth much."

AND HERE'S THE VIRTUE OF HUMILITY DEFINED, quoted from the same encyclopedia.

"These definitions coincide with that given by St. Thomas: "The virtue of humility", he says, "Consists in keeping oneself within one's own bounds, not reaching out to things above one, but SUBMITING TO ONE'S SUPPERIOR" (Summa Contra Gent., bk. IV, ch. lv, tr. Rickaby). "

Cruis.In. REASON IS ONE OF THE HIGHEST OF HUMAN VALUES, IT'S WHAT MAKES US HUMAN, ANIMALS DO NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO REASON, YOU CAN NOT DEFY REALITY NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY. STOP DIGGING YOURSELF A HOLE< READ MY QUOTE< AND JUST STOP.

[Matchoo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Soback:

You go ahead and be humble, I, Jaguar and people like us, we know our own worth. And don't you dare try to trap us into guilt that not being humble is bad. We know better, you destroy our childrens minds with bs like that, they grow up not knowing their potential, throttling their brains, and grow up subjugated and taken advantage of by every thug and passerby.

Proud, assertive, non submissive, high ranking, independent, prestigious, that's all the oposites of humble. I am that man, NOT HUMBLE, and our troops are those soldiers, NOT HUMBLE.

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You're right that not being humble is not bad, but being humble isn't bad either.

quote:

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arrogance

n : overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors

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quote:

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confidence

n 1: freedom from doubt; belief in yourself and your abilities

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I think the main difference in the two items above is the first throws away all humility while the second retains the humility which adds strength.

I know I would much rather socialize with someone who is confident with their abilities but treats me with respect rather than someone who is cocky and looks down on me.

[Soback]

quote:

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Originally posted by Matchoo:

quote:

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arrogance

n : OVERBEARING pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors

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quote:

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confidence

n 1: freedom from doubt; belief in yourself and your abilities

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I think the main difference in the two items above is the first throws away all humility while the second retains the humility which adds strength.

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Arrogance is DIFFERENT FROM PRIDE, it's OVERBEARING pride. Being ARROGANT is bad, being PRIDEFULL is not. While being HUMBLE, no matter how you spin it (humbling, humble, to humble, humbling), you are just that, HUMBLE. If you are religious, you can humble yourself to God, do not humble yourself to MAN.

"Hum-ble = 1-not proud or haughty ; not arrogant or assertive, 2- offered in a spirit of deference or submission (appology) 3, ranking low in some hierarchy or scale (insignificant), 4 - to destroy the power, independence or prestige of.

"The word humility signifies lowliness or submissiveness an it is derived from the Latin humilitas or, as St. Thomas says, from humus, i.e. the earth which is beneath us. As applied to persons and things it means that which is abject, ignoble, or of poor condition, as we ordinarily say, not worth much."

"These definitions coincide with that given by St. Thomas: "The virtue of humility", he says, "Consists in keeping oneself within one's own bounds, not reaching out to things above one, but SUBMITING TO ONE'S SUPPERIOR" (Summa Contra Gent., bk. IV, ch. lv, tr. Rickaby). "

NONE of those three paragraphs convey to me why somone would volantarily humble oneself, or say to someone that him NOT being humble is bad, unless they wanted that someone to humble himself, to gain conrol over him, to enslave him. If you tell a person that knows his worth, that has pride in himself and his work, that has a free mind to humble himself, he will laugh at you, if you force him, he will respond by force, he will simply not SUBMIT.

[Matchoo]

quote:

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pride

1. A sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.

2. Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or association: parental pride.

3. Arrogant or disdainful conduct or treatment; haughtiness.

4a. A cause or source of pleasure or satisfaction; the best of a group or class: These soldiers were their country's pride.

4b. The most successful or thriving condition; prime: the pride of youth.

5. An excessively high opinion of oneself; conceit.

6. Mettle or spirit in horses.

7. A company of lions.

8.A flamboyant or impressive group: a pride of acrobats.

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Pride and arrogance can be the same thing. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with having confidence in yourself and pride in your work. I just think that one needs to be careful not to let that pride reflect itself as arrogance. That can be done by retaining a little humility.

quote:

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Humble

1. not proud or haughty ; not arrogant or assertive,

2. offered in a spirit of deference or submission (appology)

3. ranking low in some hierarchy or scale (insignificant),

4. - to destroy the power, independence or prestige of.

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You are right, though, and I agree that we need to be careful not to underestimate ourselves or let our children think that they are limited in potential. Doing that robs us and them.

But enough with the dictionary definitions. What was this topic about again?

[Cruis.In]

quote:

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We know better, you destroy our childrens minds with bs like that, they grow up not knowing their potential, throttling their brains, and grow up subjugated and taken advantage of by every thug and passerby.

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No one ever took advantage of me. My brain isn't throttled. Your predicting how children would grow up based on that? That's like saying teaching them your way will make them grow up like Hitler.

You are making very big assertions. Fluff, all fluff.

[Soback]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cruis.In:

quote:

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We know better, you destroy our childrens minds with bs like that, they grow up not knowing their potential, throttling their brains, and grow up subjugated and taken advantage of by every thug and passerby.

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No one ever took advantage of me. My brain isn't throttled. Your predicting how children would grow up based on that? That's like saying teaching them your way will make them grow up like Hitler.

You are making very big assertions. Fluff, all fluff.

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ROFL, Hitler. George Bush was likened to Hitler, Arnold was likened to Hilter, and now I, because of my ways, am likened to Hitler. You liberals sure do have one thing in common. Whenever a man stands on his own two feet, whenever he shrugs off the ties of society, whenver he disagrees, whenever he refuses to be subjugated, he is the HITLER. Do you know WHO Hitler was? Do you know WHAT Hitler did? Do you know what Hitler believed in? Do you know WHY Hitler was doing all the acts of violence? AND Finally DO YOU KNOW WHY HE COULD COMIT ALL THOSE ACTS? I will give you an answer to the last one. He could do all those acts because people HUMBLED themselfs to him, because he SUBJUGATED them, because they CONFORMED to his policies and views, because people gave up their FREE WILL, because they gave up their identity, they betrayed the character of a human being, they let a dictator and the society that dectator created RUN their lives. They because a mindless group, the slaves and the slave drivers, and anyone who retained and lived by their own mind ceased to be a member of that group, to be EXTERMINATED by FORCE. Cruis.In. you have dug yourself a hole that you will NEVER climb out of. Answer me this Cruis.In. Who is more like Hitler, me with a FREE MIND, or you who tries to HUMBLE me, to control me with your society because what is good for society is good for everyone, and if you disagree, then you cease to be a member of that society. Whos way of life more likely to put Hitler in control, YOURS with conformity, with pursuit of ones happiness at the cost of your neighbors, with group mentality, or MINE with FREE WILL and pursuit of INDIVIDUALITY, and ones Happiness at the cost of no-one elses.

How about not teaching the kids my WAYS. But teaching them that they are a PERSON WITHING THEMSELFS. That they are FREE and that they DO NOT OWN anyone a thing, that they are to pursue their dreams without forcing anyone to "help" them in their pursuit, because by the same token as they do not own anything to anyone, nobody owns them what they didn't EARN either. And that they are not to LET anyone subjugate them, leech off of them, manipulate them, control them, humble them, nor are they to give up their FREE WILL to society, to be a conformist at the cost of their character, to be a slave at the cost of their mind.

As this thread is about Americas Army, and we started talking about how proud American Army is, if you think that our soldiers are humble, and subjugated you are mistaken. Just because they serve in the army and follow orders doesn't make them slaves, when they signed up for the army, they signed their word as a man, as a FREE MAN at that. Army gave them value in form of training and pay that they are to re-pay with the value of their service. If you think a soldier is not proud of himself, or is controllable, try and say that to his face, or try to force him, see if you walk away with your face looking the same way when you insult him, or with both your hands if you force him.

Give a person respect he deserves, he will give you what you deserve in return. Steal respect from a person, he will not only take yours, he will make you pay for what was stolen from him.

[ 08-08-2005, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Soback ]

[John Prezioso]

quote:

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But enough with the dictionary definitions. What was this topic about again?

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Actually, the difference between confidence, pride, arrogance, and humility as defined by their dictronary defs IS fairly relevant to the topic of America's army and their attitude. One could see a soldier as being prideful and arrogant, while someone else can see the same soldier as confident and proud.

[Guest Remo Williams]

Hey don't forget IÔÇÖm supposed to be a Nazi according to some here. LMAO!

Anyway I'll say this on humility as a very successful entrepreneur and businessmen you must be assertive and humble to be a success. The trick is to find a balance going to far one way or the other can ruin you in the business world. It also helps a lot to know the personality of the people your attempting to engage in a deal. Once you know that then finding the correct balance is a snap.

If you really want to make the big bucks thereÔÇÖs times you'll have to be humble or kiss that sweet deal goodbye.

Humility does have its place just don't go overboard and become everyoneÔÇÖs floor mat or you'll accomplish nothing in this life, but inherent the earth in the end.

[Cruis.In]

Ok I am DONE discussing anything with you SOBACK. Every godamn post you post you twist my godamn words. I NEVER said you are like HITLER. I said that saying that YOU saying that teaching a child humility could lead it to be stupid or whatever fluf you were trying to say, is just like if I SAID that teaching the children of today your way would make them Hitler. It was a comparison, I never said you are like Hitler or your ways, it was an analogy to show you that you can't say that about humility.

Secondly everything that YOU think isn't right is BS according to you. Someone having the virtue of humility is BS, teaching the children anything you don't think is right is BS, where as I was debating an issue, you are implying that I and people like me are a menace to children because we teach them BS, so fluff.

That's why I say spin doctor, it's a good thing this isn't a real conversation or I wouldn't have text to actually show I never called you or compared you to Hitler.

[Soback]

Oh I see, you were being sarcastic.

You see, where we missunderstood each other is I DO believe that if you do not teach kids to be proud of their potential, to teach them that others are their equals no matter what, to teach them that they shouldn't judge and be humble throttles their brains, sets them up to be taken advantage off...ect (what I posted way back), SO I took your comparison literally at face value, and therefore did think that you were saying that teaching kids to be proud, to know their value, to know the value of their mind would make them grow up like Hitler. I see now how you did not mean it in literal sence.

--"Your predicting how children would grow up based on that? That's like saying teaching them your way will make them grow up like Hitler."

My appologies. I missunderstood what you posted.

[Guest Grayfox]

[Cruis.In]

Ok I accept that apology

[Guest Capn Crunch]

What's up with all the anger?

[John Prezioso]

Probably mad that they're not in California...