Fleet Roles

[Zane_Marlowe]

Well, if you remember the beginning of this post, this basically came from a recruiting problem. There are people who passed on ISS and went to Prime who told me when I asked why that, "I don't want to be guarding the home fires, I want frontline action." There are also people who sought us out in ISS because of CIOPS (spy enthusiasts) and those who almost signed up with ISS until they learned that Wraith was where the SpecOps was (at first thinking it was CIOPS).

What that demonstrated to me was two things. Firstly, that first impressions count, and that ISS was being seen as essentially a backburner fleet relative to a frontline fleet like Prime. Now it's to your credit that you have organized and done as well as you have. That's why you keep cadets, and that's part of why you get your recruiting numbers. Another part is that SC is officially a member of your fleet, and another part is that you're not officially "guarding the home fires." It's not one or the other, it's all three, and if I didn't have this experience a number of times, I wouldn't have spent time thinking, researching, and posting PM's to SC.

Now the thing I'm suggesting changes to is not simply a ROE. That would make no difference if we were already going to be redefining Wraith and ISS as modular frontline fleets like Prime. The suggested change is to the actual fleet's mission itself. Reread the fleets FAQ where each fleet is defined in its purpose, mission, and role. That's the thing that would change. That's the thing people read and say "I'd rather be at the tip of the spear, and that looks like Prime." Why does it look like Prime? Because Prime's been defined that way, and while it didn't matter when fleets were focused on RP, now that the focus has changed to MP and we're actually trying to field teams of players, it's come to matter a great deal.

Let me reiterate, I think Prime has a lot for us to emulate: you guys are doing it right. It is we who may need to reinvent ourselves in some way in order to attract recruits. The way that's been suggested by SC is a good one. However, if we lose the distinct advantages we have now, then we lose something that drew people into the fleet in the first place.

With respect Remo, I realize that you're tiring of the discussion, but in fairness, you're not really being asked to do anything, and there's nothing at stake for your fleet in this discussion as has already been observed. I agree that if we want a ROE that includes fleet elements, then we can and probably should build it ourselves. But let's not forget that the thing on the table is not Prime and MP games, it's fleets with supporting roles considering how they might (or whether they should) successfully transform themselves into frontline fleets without losing the distinctive character that won them the recruits they already have.

My existing suggestion is that support fleets like Wraith and ISS consider remaking themselves as frontline fleets, except that they keep the GALCOM specialty for which they are known by including that specialty in a wing within the fleet. That's how those specialty's are represented now, but the difference between my idea and SC's (as I understand his idea) is that in SC's concept, Wraith and ISS would lose their special emphasis on SpecOps and Intel since, like Prime's organization, those functions would be handled internally for every fleet. The reason I would be reluctant to give up those specializations is because that's what attracted our recruits, and those specializations are what we contribute to GALCOM overall (i.e., the specializations aid in interfleet cohesion).

If what I'm trying to ask about is unclear, then ask me about it, but this thread has wandered now to both RP and MP aspects of this game when it's not really about either of them. Very simply, it's about the concept of these fleets that makes them appealing as entities within either of those two kinds of gameplay.

Respectfully submitted for comment.

[Guest Remo Williams]

I think I understand what your try to convey in this topic a little better now. What I really don't want see is the end of the special roles ISS, Wraith and Orion have to offer GalCom. ThatÔÇÖs probably why I'm reluctant to discuss change and tire of it quickly. Remember I'm and old dog and don't learn new tricks to easily I have to see the benefit for GalCom as a whole before I jump on the wagon most of the time.

If we divide the MP universe into areas of control that would basically put all fleets on the frontline. If I remember correctly ISS had a station assigned to it in the SP universe out near Orion in the Tau Ceti system, which basically put them on the front line with Orion along with the ISSÔÇÖs many duties in Sol.

What I'm going to suggest for the ISS role in MP anyway is that they have their own station as assigned already plus they maintain a contingent on all GalCom Station thus their name In - System - Support Fleet with the emphasis on the support role. This will allow them to carry out their Intel and Support ROE in all GalCom Regions plus maintain there own region. Thus youÔÇÖre on the frontline for GalCom and carry out the ISS special purpose ROE for GalCom also.

I have more to add to this but I'm out of time for right now I will expand on this concept for the ISS and the other fleets also if you all are interested in hearing more anyway. As was said this doesn't change Prime, but it will impact how Prime is seen and function IMO.

[Marvin]

About Membership:

In the military, you can join the Marines, or the Air Force, or Navy, or Army, or whatever. But you do not get to specify the squadron, or wing, or fleet, etc. You join "at the convenience of ..." and live with it.

Granted, sometimes you can request a preference. A specific job, or aircraft, or location. But, in the end, what you get is what is needed by the military.

Back in '76, just about everyone who graduated from Nav school wanted to be assigned to the back seat of an F-4. If the Air Force had allowed TAC to take all who wanted to go, there would've been a whole lot of tankers and C-130s wandering the skies, totally lost.

So, having a quota system isn't such an outlandish idea. Personally, I'd prefer otherwise ... because even Prime can have its problems with "retention rates."

About Roles:

I can't think of anything else other than "offensive," "defensive," and "intelligence."

Prime has always been offensive ... some might claim such is the case in more ways than one. But, be that as it may, if an FC feels uncomfortable in a "frontline" role, then we can always define, in each scenario, who does what. Especially since, right now, we are playing as a mixed bag, anyway.

Example: In Gordon's original scenario, it would be Prime's job to take out the enemy shuttle; a member of one of the other GalCom fleets would try to protect our own SC.

Personally, I think someone like, for instance, Ben could make better use of his talents out front ... but, if "defense" is what his fleet is supposed to do ....

Intel personnel could be the guys piloting an SC in a scenario where other players escort the shuttle. If not Intel, then anyone assigned to a fleet that's normally in a support role.

Whatever.

[Zane_Marlowe]

quote:

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Originally posted by Remo Williams:

What I really don't want see is the end of the special roles ISS, Wraith and Orion have to offer GalCom.

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Completely agreed.

quote:

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If I remember correctly ISS had a station assigned to it in the SP universe out near Orion in the Tau Ceti system, which basically put them on the front line with Orion along with the ISSÔÇÖs many duties in Sol.

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I know about the base at Saturn/Titan, I'll have to go find out about this one you're mentioning, it's the first I've heard of this.

quote:

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What I'm going to suggest for the ISS role in MP anyway is that they have their own station as assigned already plus they maintain a contingent on all GalCom Station thus their name In - System - Support Fleet with the emphasis on the support role. This will allow them to carry out their Intel and Support ROE in all GalCom Regions plus maintain there own region. Thus youÔÇÖre on the frontline for GalCom and carry out the ISS special purpose ROE for GalCom also.

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That sounds much like what I was thinking as well.... Hey...

Good gracious, Remo and I are on the same page! I always dreamed this day would come Cheers man, this one's on me.

[Ben Zwycky]

I have an idea for an intel ROE, but it'll need to be tested and balanced.

[Guest Remo Williams]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ben Zwycky:

I have an idea for an intel ROE, but it'll need to be tested and balanced.

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Ok Ben I'm going to start another topic probably later today on ROE for members that would like to share their ideas, get input, and set ROE testing dates so they'll have the help they need to fine tune their ideas into an official fleet document.

quote:

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About Membership:

In the military, you can join the Marines, or the Air Force, or Navy, or Army, or whatever. But you do not get to specify the squadron, or wing, or fleet, etc. You join "at the convenience of ..." and live with it.

Granted, sometimes you can request a preference. A specific job, or aircraft, or location. But, in the end, what you get is what is needed by the military.

Back in '76, just about everyone who graduated from Nav school wanted to be assigned to the back seat of an F-4. If the Air Force had allowed TAC to take all who wanted to go, there would've been a whole lot of tankers and C-130s wandering the skies, totally lost.

So, having a quota system isn't such an outlandish idea. Personally, I'd prefer otherwise ... because even Prime can have its problems with "retention rates."

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Quotas aren't a bad idea chief at a later date though IMO. Once we get more people to get invovled in MP. Right now even Prime is lucky to get the three members needed for a team match.

We can start another topic on "fleet MP membership quotas" though to work out all the details. Then once a fleet reaches a certain number of active MP members the quota rules would kick in for that fleet they could then not take in any more members until either their MP membership droped down below the maximum number or the other fleet reached the set quota level.

We can discuss this in another topic though either create it yourself chief or wait for me its up to you.

quote:

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I can't think of anything else other than "offensive," "defensive," and "intelligence."

Prime has always been offensive ... some might claim such is the case in more ways than one. But, be that as it may, if an FC feels uncomfortable in a "frontline" role, then we can always define, in each scenario, who does what. Especially since, right now, we are playing as a mixed bag, anyway.

Example: In Gordon's original scenario, it would be Prime's job to take out the enemy shuttle; a member of one of the other GalCom fleets would try to protect our own SC.

Personally, I think someone like, for instance, Ben could make better use of his talents out front ... but, if "defense" is what his fleet is supposed to do ....

Intel personnel could be the guys piloting an SC in a scenario where other players escort the shuttle. If not Intel, then anyone assigned to a fleet that's normally in a support role.

Whatever.

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Ok hereÔÇÖs a run down of the special fleet roles they way I've seen them for years anyway, and have waited for the day MP was released so we could use these roles as designed by the original fleet leaders and their reps.

ISS: The In-System-Support fleet. They are GalCom's Intel fleet you can think of them (at least I have) as the Supreme Commanders Secret Service, CIA and FBI rolled into one package. Whenever the SC or other important GalCom officials are on diplomatic mission your going to see the ISS peaking around corners clearing the way and defending these guys with extreme prejudiced.

They also carry out this operation inside of all GalCom home regions plus behind enemy lines so the SC knows where his other assets (fleets) are needed to advance and defend GalCom

Orion: Whenever the SC needs to hit something hard in the public eye behind enemy lines these are the guys that get the job done. They usually move in with overwhelming firepower and completely destroy whateverÔÇÖs in their path. You can think of Orion as the modern day US Battle Group or Carrier Group. When ever a Star Station or Star base needs to be softened up for invasion or completely wiped out these are the men you will see doing it.

Wraith: GalCom covert ops fleet. These people unlike Orion do stuff out of the public eye. Whenever the SC wants something done with little or no fanfare this who he calls on. Their job is to get in behind enemy lines and cause as much damage as possible and get out undetected. You can think of these guys as our present day Navy Seals, or Green BretÔÇÖs, which ever you prefer. If something need to be taken out with a small number of assets Wraith will be there.

Prime:Well what can I say about Prime that you all don't know already. Prime is the SC's baby and is a package of all the other fleet's rolled up into one with out any special interest except the defense of GalCom no matter what the cost. When ever you join the GalCom military more than likely you will end up in Prime Fleet. Prime is the go anywhere do anything fleet without allot of the special training the other fleetÔÇÖs have. Prime will take heavy losses to get the job done due to their overwhelming numbers in combat. After Orion softens up a target for invasion Prime hits the target running. Whenever ISS goes behind enemy lines to assess the damage Wraith has inflicted Prime fleet assets will be near by.

I'm not real clear on the Insurgent fleets purposes so maybe an Insurgent will spell it out for use to make it easier for people to create ROE taking the insurgent role's into mind.

The Gammulans fleets well I don't know there either, but they real are non-existent anyway as far as MP goes since their leaders are not active in MP or any of the fleet discussions.

[ 11-21-2004, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Remo Williams ]

[ShoHashi]

quote:

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DreadA originally posted:

What do the Insurgent Alliance Leaders and Orion Fleet Leaders think about all this?

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I can only speak for myself, DreadA, but I really have no opinion on any of that. I'm much more inclined to continue running the Insurgents as we have been doing in the past without worrying about all these "role" changes.

quote:

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Remo Williams originally posted:

I'm not real clear on the Insurgent fleets purposes so maybe an Insurgent will spell it out for use to make it easier for people to create ROE taking the insurgent role's into mind.

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Basically, the Insurgent Alliance is divided into 4 fleets as outline below. All of this information is available on the ICC page.

1. Balor Fleet - is the Logistics Arm of the Insurgency. ItÔÇÖs primary tasking is to outfit the Insurgency. Among the assets of Balor Fleet one might find Armed Transports, Battlecruisers, and a large variety of other class ships, all with the capability of carrying payloads of supplies and resources.

2. Bishamon Fleet - is the ÔÇ£Black HeartÔÇØ of the Insurgency. Bishamon might be considered the expeditionary force within the Insurgency. Stealth, speed, and decisiveness play a key role in it's success.

3. Eversor Fleet - is the Research and Development Arm of the Insurgents. ItÔÇÖs primary mission is to equip the Insurgents with the latest technologies and weaponry. As such, Eversor is considered the most heavily armed and contains the widest of ship classes and variety.

4. Spectre Fleet - is the torso of the Insurgent effort. It is the primary battle fleet and, as such, contains much of the same elements and capabilities of the specialized fleets.

That's it in a nutshell. Currently we have NO intentions whatsoever on changing their roles.

[Marvin]

quote:

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Originally posted by Remo Williams:

Prime will take heavy losses to get the job done due to their overwhelming numbers in combat.

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Hey, that wasn't in my contract.

[DennyMala]

LOL!!! In mine neither chief!!!

I was sure to have missed something....