What'd think of these Specs?

[Steve Schacher]

quote:

---

Zimrat fleet finds flourishing human race on Earth and destroys it, and againt thinking they've annihilated humanity but leaves a probe so they don't make the mistake they did last time (These guys must have a pretty long grudge against us apes ); Hawkeye returns and finds decimated Earth; probe transmits Hawkeye's existance; Hawkeye searches for a new home away from the Zimrat for its crew to colonize and rebuild.

---

Almost sounds like the Cylons...

[Avant Garde]

Hehe.. non-visible domes? Kind of reminds me of those shields from Phantom menace.

Steve:

I don't recall the Cylons attacking Earth in Galactica 1980.

------------------

Cmdr. John Clark

GCV-Transcendence

For Hope, For Peace, For Earth, Forever

[Guest]

How about instead of the Zimrat directing an asteroid towards mars (there would be a gigantic crater visible through telescopes, so it wouldn't be realistic), you could have the Zimrat fly over with some battleships & have their lasers firing away, scorching the martian surface destroying all humanity on the planet. The craft with 10 or so crew flying to Earth could be a simple exploration craft, which happened to be away from Mars when the Zimrat struck.

Maybe the Hawkeye could be built for Revenge?

Just my two cents, but what do you think??

Another idea's just popped into my head: you could show some shots relating to the Roswell incident, where the supposed UFO could be a Zimrat probe.

------------------

Wing Commander Robert Martin

GCV-Dark Knight

Prime Fleet

S26 Commander, Beta Wing

[This message has been edited by Rm (edited 05-05-2000).]

[Commander Zeke Stone]

Well Robert I used the idea of an asteroid being directed toward Mars because scientists believe that this is what actually happened to Mars, although your idea is a good one, at least the part about the Zimrat ships scorching the surface of the planet. Also I cannot make it so they build the ship in revenge because just like life now they don't know that there are aliens out there, the memory of the Zimrat and our ancestors on Mars was lost in the 2 million or so years since. I also like the idea of an exploration stuck out in space while the planet was being destroyed. Funny, the Zimrat ship do look like the UFO that people say crashed at Rosewell, pure coincidence.

------------------

Commander Zeke Stone,

UCV Guardian - "Never Give Up, Never Surrender"

**War is never won or lost, only fought**

[pkzip]

heck, why NOT have it take 200 years to build? Why not even 500 years or more? I think it's a fresh idea, I like it.

There's a name for getting unruly humans to cooperate over many many generations in a huge project based on faith. It's called Religion, and it wears many faces: Fear of Strangers, Desire for Utopia, Order by Rule, etc. In other words, give your characters a compelling enough reason to keep at it that long, and they will.

This helps to breathe more life into the ship itself: it becomes a living, changing representation of the characters' belief in the Knowability of the Uncertain.. it is a church, if you will. And churches change like hardware and technology; ya tear the old ones down and build new ones with their pieces. Yesterday's 'bridge sound-reduction plates' become tomorrow's 'aft corridor bathroom carpet.'

But like churches, sometimes the original motivation (Writing 101: no motivation, no story) gets muddled over time. It never hurts to juxtapose your characters' ancient faiths against their current realities.

Just an outlook from a former English tutor. Zeke, I applaud you for thinking Big.

(DISCLAIMER: This is meant as neither a plug for, nor diss against, Organized Religion, nor as an attempt to veer off thread, or to open up a dangerous new one. Anyone offended by these ideas is kindly requested to go seek a broader education. "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" would be a good place to start.)

[This message has been edited by pkzip (edited 07-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by pkzip (edited 07-08-2000).]

[Commander Zeke Stone]

Thank you for your kind words pkzip. I'm currently trying to think of a reason for it to be build this large. My current idea for that the ship will be able to generate it's own wormholes to anywhere in the universe (probably not anywhere, there is always certain limitations for any mechanical device) and it will have to use "wormhole engines" to propel itself to the proper speed to get through the wormhole. So I was thinking that it needs to be this large so that it will not collapse under the pressure of the wormhole. I do not know if this will work or not, I guess I need to research more on wormholes.

I am also thinking that after the Earth is destroyed in my movie that they change the name of the ship from U.S.S. Hawkeye to something a little more appropriate (haven't thought of what that will be yet).

BTW I have changed the design of this ship and therefor there are new stats which I will post ASAP.

------------------

Commander Zeke Stone,

UCV Guardian - "Never Give Up, Never Surrender"

**War is never won or lost, only fought**

[Commander Zeke Stone]

Okay, Since they closed my "U.N.S. ????" thread I'll just have to ask the same question here and hope that people will look at the bottom of this thread.

I ask again, does anyone have any good ship names for a ship that holds the last of the human race?

BTW this movie idea WAS NOT taken from Titan A.E., if anything they took the idea from me. I came up with this about a year or two ago, long before Titan A.E. was even heard of. Sorry people sometimes assume I'm some cheap writer who can't think of anything original.

------------------

Commander Zeke Stone,

UCV Guardian - "Never Give Up, Never Surrender"

**Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job** -- Douglas Adams

[Commander Zeke Stone]

I have the new ship stats, and if anyone wants to see the design I could try and scan the pictures and send them to your email. Although I am not the best artist (drawing anyway), they are only one dimensional blueprints, and the files may be quite large, not sure. Anyway, here are the new stats:

Class- Mobile Battle Station (doesn't make much sense but the best I could think of for the moment, same class as the Death Stars though)

Name- To be determined

Length- 177,000 meters

Width- 103,571 meters

Height- 51, 786 meters

Mass- 28,480 Terra Tons (I compared it to a tank, no other way of figuring out the mass)

Max Velocity- 176 km/s

Max Acceleration- 49 m/s2

---Wormhole Drive Engine---

Max Velocity- 157,680,000,000 km/s or 1 light year per minute

Max Acceleration- 157,680,000,000,000 m/s2

Max Pitch/Yaw/Roll- 3d/s

Normal Sheild Power- 100 Gigawatts

Titanium Hull Armour- 100 meters thick

Number of Docking Bays- 792

Size of Bays- 2500 meters3

Crew Complement- To be determined

Fighter Complement- To be determined

Ship Complement- To be determined

---Weapons---

12 Long Range Anti-Ship Pulse Laser Turrets

4 Short Range Multidirectional Anti-Ship Stream Laser Towers

500,000 Anti-Fighter Laser Turrets

500,000 Anti-Figther Missile Turrets

6 - 10x2.5 km Nuclear Warheads

1,000,000 - 100x10 meters Anti-Ship Missiles

------------------

Commander Zeke Stone,

UCV Guardian - "Never Give Up, Never Surrender"

**Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job** -- Douglas Adams

[Guest Commander Hamblin]

Give me the GCV Galatea, and I could take that thing down...

Or the USS Voyager.

[This message has been edited by Commander Hamblin (edited 07-26-2000).]

[Commander Zeke Stone]

I don't know what the Galatea is but 4 Voyagers could fit in one of my docking bays, =). The main weapon on my ship can destroy planets, heh heh.

------------------

Commander Zeke Stone,

UCV Guardian - "Never Give Up, Never Surrender"

**Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job** -- Douglas Adams

[Eclipse]

Super weapons are great...... but you can't kill what you can't hit with them.

------------------

Cmdr. Antilles

Spectre Fleet

Spectre Starstation

ICV- Eclipse

Chief Security Officer

Learning is not compulsory... Neither is survival.

[Parias]

Screw the Galatea, give me the GTVA Colossus any day!

Also Eclipse, note how he said main weapon. Based on the specs, there's definately weapons for taking down smaller fighters.

------------------

Cmdr. Parias

Spectre Fleet

Chief Engineer, Starstation Destiny

ICV-Galatae

ICQ:1293359

Staff member at HardNews

"Next time you're passing by and feel like dropping in, keep passing by untill you get to a river, and THEN drop in." -Jake Logan

[Guest Commander Hamblin]

The bigger they are, the harder they fall. All I have to do is find the heel on your achilles here. In the words of John Sheridan "I have a hard time believing in the idea of an undefeatable enemy, sir. Any ship can be destroyed."

Hehe, I love using B5 quotes to make a point.

Wanna know how I'd take that thing down in the Galatea (My Battlecruiser, not the moon! Or the GTD Galatea from Freespace 1, hehe), or in Voyager?

Well, for one, I'd have to see a picture of the ship, analyse it for weaknesses. One advantage I can see already is that I'd have FAR, FAR superior manouvreability, as that thing's outmasses me like...well, like some really big thing that outmasses me!

Your ship is too big for it's own good. It'll manouvre like a beached whale.

But, let's see...oh, and for the purposes of this, I'll assume that this ship has standard Federation (From Star Trek) sensor systems (Although, you'll then immediately post saying "Oh, no, it has uber super duper galactic destroying sensor capability! It can scan anything in any universe on any dimensional plane with 100% accuracy!", right?).

quote:

---

---Weapons---

12 Long Range Anti-Ship Pulse Laser Turrets

---

Well, in the Galatea, I'd come in cloaked.

In Voyager, I'd come out of warp extremely close to the ship, so that these long range anti ship thingies will have a hard time targetting me. In both ships, I'd be on the move all the time, as that's my only advantage, my small size and manouvreability.

quote:

---

4 Short Range Multidirectional Anti-Ship Stream Laser Towers

---

Don't tell me, multidirectional in every direction, right? Why, your ship just seems absolutely perfect!

quote:

---

500,000 Anti-Fighter Laser Turrets

500,000 Anti-Figther Missile Turrets

6 - 10x2.5 km Nuclear Warheads

1,000,000 - 100x10 meters Anti-Ship Missiles

---

Those nukes are too big, and too slow. You launch one, I blow it out of the sky, then jump out/warp out to avoid the explosion. Your ship will be too slow, and too unmanouvreable to avoid the explosion.

Of course, your ship's super duper, impenetrable armour wouldn't be affected by a some small nuclear blast, right? (Even though those missiles are HUGE!!!!! In fact, it might even set off the other nukes in the launch bay, if it's detonated early enough! )

500,000 Anti Fighter laser and 500,000 Anti Fighter missile turrets, hmm? Well, since they are anti-fighter, they're not gonna affect me much, are they? In Voyager, I can just zoom along the hull at tremendous speeds, picking 'em off with my phasers. If I "hug the hull" close enough, I'll be too close to the ship itself, and moving too quickly for you to be able to hit me (Federation Starships have superb sub-light manouvreability and speed).

It'll probably take a while, but eventually, I'll get all of 'em.

In the BC, I can use afterburners, then just deactivate the engines, and drift along quite quickly. When I wish to change course, I'll use manouvreing thrusters. I'll be taking out those turrets with my PTA and IOD.

And I haven't even launched Interceptors yet!

Anyhoo, one million 100x10 metres anti ship missiles, huh? Well, with things that big, if I'm hugging the hull, there is no way in hell you'll be able to target my ship. Even if you can, somehow, get those huge things to, er...bend that way, hehe , you'd risk hitting your own ship. Man, I'd LOVE to see what the hell those things would do to your "super duper uber armoured" ship, hehe.

So, whilst still "hugging the hull", I'd go to one of your massive docking bays, and start blowing things up in there, hehe, where there is none of your "super duper impenetrable armour" to protect it from my Phasers/Torpedoes/Delta Flyer's phasers and torpedoes/Shuttles phasers or IOD/Missiles/IC's missiles and lasers/PTA.

In short, your ship is too big for it's own good. I think it suffers from the one thing which afflicts many males when designing their "dream starship". Penis envy.

Thank you, and good night!

P.S This post was meant to have a whole load of smilies in it, but for some reason, it wouldn't post with them in, so I took 'em all out. But, suffice it to say, if it seems like I have a bit of an attitude problem...well, I do, but it doesn't mean anything.

[This message has been edited by Commander Hamblin (edited 07-27-2000).]

[Guest aramike01]

You may want to give the ship some serious weak spots because invulnerability makes for a weak plot.

------------------

Cmdr. Michael Kristophers

Spectre Fleet

Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation

ICV-Intrepid

"You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!"

[Akira]

Stone, that is one large ship.

Here are your weaknesses:

1. She's big. Easy target from affar. Easy to pick up on radar. Easy to track. Slow moving. And that 3d/s maneuverabillity? With a ship that large, what makes you think it can move that fast? Her mass alone will slow her down.

2. She's got so many turrets that you'd better have a small star as her power source. Even then, you'd never last long with all guns blazing. You'd have to cary more than 3/4 her weight in fuel. So, in order to fight, you'd have to give up something: sheilds, speed, manueverabillity..etc. That's the funny thing about life, everything is balanced. When you make one thing too grand something must give to compensate.

3. Your long range guns are on turrets on towers... easy to pick off. Just blow the towers (a la Star Wars Death Star).

4. Your ship has too many short range weapons. They'd most likely drain your power before doing any real damage. Additionally, you'd have to have 500,000 people opperating the guns or a computer handling 500,000 weapons. Tall order. Hard to believe you'd be able to coordinate that either way.

5. Your use of nuclear weapons will more than likely do more damage to you than your enemy.

6. Missiles are EASY to evade. There thousands of ways to fool those things and even if you can't, you can always outfly them and lead them back to your hull. Boom, there goes your ship.

7. Sheilding something that big would again require a vast amount of energy. Where would you get that kind of power source?

8. Titanium sucks. You'd have to invent something with the structural strength to withstand hi g acceleration of the mass of a small moon.

9. You have so many docking bays. How do you plan on watching them all the time. It would be very easy to just sneak on board and blend in with the crew or the citizens. Boom, there goes your power supply, nukes, flight controls, engineering, computer systems... you get the idea.

In short, you need to rethink this thing and consider some balancing. Not very many people these days simply accept that kind of technological marvel. It's balancing, or you're going to need some hella-story to make that kind of ship believable

Good luck

------------------

Flt. Cmdr. Akira

Spectre

ICV-Nevermore

Official Tester

Battlecruiser Series

[Guest aramike01]

I agree with Ron except on points number 1 and 2. IIRC, in vacuum, mass has nothing to do with top speed.

As for fuel, from what I remember, today's nuclear warships carry a very tiny amount of fuel. It really comes down to how realistic you want things to be.

But otherwise, you really do need to put a bit of a plausable spin on the thing.

I've noticed that, when it comes to epic stories, people tend to flock more to the glamour of smaller-scale conflict because of the in-your-face mentality. I'd say, scale down the ship, and bring human struggle into the foreground, with the ship as only a supporting character.

But it's your story, and good luck!

------------------

Cmdr. Michael Kristophers

Spectre Fleet

Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation

ICV-Intrepid

"You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!"

[This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Akira]

Sorry, Mike, I wasn't that clear with point 1. Yes, in a vacuum, there is no friction. In space, though, Stone would still be dealing with laws of inertia, etc. Moving that thing in any direction other than forward would cause some serious stress on the ship.

If you want to talk theory from other space bound craft fo the future, I draw your attention to StarTrek where structural integrity is controlled by dampening fields and not the design of the structure...

------------------

Flt. Cmdr. Akira

Spectre

ICV-Nevermore

Official Tester

Battlecruiser Series

[Guest aramike01]

I wouldn't imagine that the design of the structure would matter - no aerodynamic principles that apply.

I guess the best way to look at things is this: if one could tie a rope around the Earth, and assuming the Sun didn't exist, a man could easily pull the Earth in a vacuum.

For there to be any stress on an object, there must be forces applied to the object. With no friction or gravity, an object wouldn't be limited in any way at all. Space is called space for a reason - there's a lot of it. A lot more that has nothing at all than there is area which has forces nearby. So really, mass doesn't matter at all. If a man could harness the ship in empty space, he could pull it.

It all comes down to how realistic you want the story to be.

Inertia wouldn't be a problem either. Just apply equal and opposite force to stop any movement. Wouldn't cause stress because there is no third force acting upon the object.

------------------

Cmdr. Michael Kristophers

Spectre Fleet

Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation

ICV-Intrepid

"You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!"

[This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Guest Commander Hamblin]

Yeah, well still, it'll manouvre like a beached whale. And I could take it down in either the GCV Galatea or USS Voyager.

Too bad none of my ex girlfriends could see this. Because it proves that size doesn't matter.

------------------

COMMANDER JAMES HAMBLIN

ORION FLEET

GALATEA EXPLORATION WING

GALATEA EXPLORATION WING COMMANDER

GCV GALATEA.

www.orion-hq.fsnet.co.uk

"For I dip't into the future, far as human eyes could see. Saw the vision of the world and all the wonder that would be..."

Good work, Commander. In the future, if I have any questions about mating behaviour, I'll know where to go - Captain Kathryn Janeway.

[Commander Zeke Stone]

I love replies like this, they always get me thinking and in general help me along(this is not sarcasm). I found that you two seemed to forget one main thing....sheilds, the sheild on this ship is like a giant bubble, like in Independence Day, so in order to skim along the surface you would have to catch her while her sheilds were down.

The powersource is some new and "supposedly" natural crystal that's about the size of two middle class houses. It gives off an immearsurable amount of energy. This was found either on Mars or Planet X.

BTW, I know this sounds like I'm trying to make this ship unbeatable, well, I'm not. Actually I'm planning on having it destroyed at some point in the "movies"(theirs more than one, or will be anyway). But, I don't want to make it too weak since it is carrying the last of the human race. I haven't worked out the weaknessess yet, but trust me, there will be.

Also, you both seem to mention the nukes going off and exploding the ship. Well, just like today's ship, those missiles are going to have a thousand safety features, including, not being armed until they are at a safe distance. These missiles and the Main Weapon (which also has no name)can only be fired if the computer gets the Captain's and Tactical Officer's, Card Code, Password, Voice Autherization, Hand Print ID, Retinal ID (not sure how to spell that), and DNA ID. Can't be too safe with weapons of this power.

You two are also forgetting that the docking bays hold Cruisers, Destroyers, Carriers, Fighters, and so on...

Question: If the the Presidents and Prime Ministers of each country are also on board this ship is the Captain still in charge?

One weakness I can think of right now, is that the engines don't have much in the means of defence, besides the sheild and a bunch of Anti-Fighter Turrets. The docking bays are also a weakness, but of course you two have already mentioned that.

Even though my ship is so big, it is almost no match for a Zimrat Ship. The Zimrat turn all of their ships into one huge one for travel. During battle they detach into about 600 farely large ships. Their numbers, speed, and maneuverability are too much for my ship.

Something to remember if your fighting against my ship with a Fighter: The large black tunnel is not a good place to hide as it is more than likely my turret. =)

I am hoping to make this movie as realistic as possible, but I do want the ship to be this big. I'm still trying to think of a good reason for it to be so big.

I'm actually going to link this movie to the book series I am beginning to write now called "The Secret Invasion". I am not going to actually start writing the script for this movie until I feel I am an experienced enough writer and director. Also linking it to another movie I'm going to write called "The Guardians of Time"(I won't get into that movie right now, unless you want me to).

I still haven't got anymore replies in the way of names, oh well. Thanks for the advise.

------------------

Commander Zeke Stone,

UCV Guardian - "Never Give Up, Never Surrender"

**Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job** -- Douglas Adams

[This message has been edited by Commander Zeke Stone (edited 07-28-2000).]

[Akira]

quote:

---

If the the Presidents and Prime Ministers of each country are also on board this ship is the Captain still in charge?

---

In answer, on military craft (in general) the Aircraft Commander(AC) (whatever the rank and usually the pilot) is ALWAYS in charge regardless of rank while the craft is airborne. Once on the ground, the highest ranking officer is in charge. Politicians are usually only granted as much authority as the AC wishes to allow.

Your ship's captain would be given his orders prior to launch. Disobeying those orders would constitute a severe violation and, in the instance of your story, most likely have a penalty of death.

That's not to say the captain couldn't be convinced by a politician. In the end the Captain is responsible for the safety of the ship, crew, and passengers. If he/she were to make a decision contrary to orders but based on circumstances beyond the scope of orders, the court martial would not find the captain in fault... unless you wrote otherwise. Captains are only human and in order to be punished must be caught

As for sheilds... man, that's one HUGE power drain. These crystals that provide this enormous powersupply would most likely have given off some reading. Being that Mars is so close, it's unlikely that the reader would believe that we did not detect this powersupply with our current equipment.

[Maxamillian]

Stone, there is a game out on the market that has all the features that you propose.

Check out HOMEWORLD and see how close you are getting to this plot. These massive ships have been used in SiFi stories for years. The Dr. Savage series of the thirties had their gigaships.

You will have to think out your plot very carefully before you decide to build that ship.

There have been stories in which the entire planet was converted into a starship. I have messed with writing SiFi some and found that the Publishers want something that is new. Check out some of the old authors and see how they handled this end of civilization plot.

Keep up the good work, the world needs it's dreamers. ------------------

Cmdr. Maxamillian (MAX)

GCV-Dreadnaught

Prime Fleet

G2 Intelligence/Security; G3 Tactics (Acting)

Shipsmotto: "Retreat? Hell!"

[This message has been edited by Maxamillian (edited 07-29-2000).]

[Wold]

Hello Cmdr Zeke Stone, I too would like to encourage you in your quest. The world need dreamers who actually do something about that vision. Since everything in existance started with a dream, that's a great place to start!

If my understanding is correct about your movie you may want to get the book Mutineers' Moon by David Weber. In this story the Earth's moon is actually a battleship. Here's a quote from page 26 of said book

[QU0TE] The Utu-class were designed both for the line of battle and for independant, long-term survey and picket deployment, with core crews of two hundered and fifty thousand. Intended optimum deployment time is twenty-five Terran years, with provision for a sixty percent increase in personnel during that period. Maximum deployment time is virtually unlimited, assuming crew expansion is contained. In addition to small, two-seat fighters that may be employed in either attack or defense, Dahak deploys sublight parasite warships massing up to eighty thousand tons. Shipboard weaponry centers around hyper-capable missile batteries backed up by direct-fire energy weapons. Weapon payloads range from chemical warheads through fusion, anti-matter, and gravitonic warheads. Essentiall, Commander, this ship could vaporize your planet."

[Commander Zeke Stone]

I wanted my ship to be the biggest and baddest ever, but I have heard there was a book once that had the earth turned into a ship. Since I do not wish it to be bigger than the earth I've been thinking of shrinking it to a more reasonable size. How does this sound?

Length: 41,000 meters

Width: 25,029 meters

Height: 12,514 meters

Most of the other stats would stay the same except for:

Mass: 6,623 Terra Tons

Docking Bays: 66

Bay Size: 1200 m3

Crew Complement: 3,000,000,000 max/2,000,000normal

Cruisers: 66 max/20 normal

Carriers: 66 max/10 normal

Destroyers: 132 max/20 normal

Frigates: 264 max/40 normal

Transports: 528 max/80 normal

Civilian Craft: 1056 - 11880 max/100 normal

Bombers: 7620 max/590 normal

Fighters: 11880 max/1410 normal

Also I've changed it so the 100 meter thick Titanium hull armour is now a new type of metal called "Corenesis".

Do you think I should make the change to these new specs?

------------------

Commander Zeke Stone,

UCV Guardian - "Never Give Up, Never Surrender"

**Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job** -- Douglas Adams

[Commander Zeke Stone]

Slight miscalculation there. The ship actually goes 2,628,000,000 km/s which is about a lightyear an hour. I'm also changing it from Wormhole Drive Engines to Interspacial Tunnel Drive Engines. I did this because a Wormhole would simply teleport them directly to the other end unlike my Interspacial Tunnels which create a Tunnel in Normal Space that allows the ship to go through an object in normal space without the unfortunate Hull breach.

------------------

Commander Zeke Stone,

UCV Guardian - "Never Give Up, Never Surrender"

**Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job** -- Douglas Adams

[This message has been edited by Commander Zeke Stone (edited 08-21-2000).]