Life

[Guest MIKE113]

If you like and respect the person looking back at you in the mirror you are on the way to happiness!

[Cruis.In]

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I'm suprised people his age can stop masturbating long enough to think those thoughts

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come on give 18 yr olds some credit

unless you speak for north american teenagers...

I was still 18 when I was sworn in...hmm a teenage cop...isn't that like 21 Jump Street or something??

[Guest]

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Originally by Race Bannon

Jag certainly has a right to his beliefs even though as a Christian I disagree with him.

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Excuse me? I never stated my beliefs, except for the fact that I am agnostic, did you actually mean Menchise?

And if not, what part do you disagree with?

And I found Menchise personal beliefs very interesting, look at hinduism or Pagan Menchise, they are pretty close to what you are saying are your beliefs. Although, I hate to be put into a box on my religion, although I'll put you in a box on your politics EVERY time!!

[ 09-06-2002, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

[Guest Grayfox]

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you respect people that post here?

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of course i do. and i respect everyones beliefs. i also know some people tend to get a little "zealous" about their beliefs and try and belittle others not of the same alignment.

i just dont want to see that happen.

im sure the mods would catch it if it got out of hand anyway.

[Guest]

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By Grayfox

im sure the mods would catch it if it got out of hand anyway.

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Damn straight we would!!

[Guest MIKE113]

Happiness is..........Jags 34....Colts 3..

[CommanderJohnson]

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im sure the mods would catch it if it got out of hand anyway.

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Aren't the mods the zealots anyway?

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I mean Dredd is 18y/o!! I'm suprised people his age can stop masturbating long enough to think those thoughts.

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People my age typically can't, or are too busy getting drunk or high to. Sorta hard to use higher level brain functions when the brain is full of crack and pot (not to insult anyone here that may use them, but it IS proven).

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It is a real tribute to Dredd that he has the maturity to delve into such a heavy subject.

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Thanks.

I don't think that anyone here has an urge to bash each other's spiritual/religious beliefs. Most people here seem to be polarized on politics, but I think we all recognize the intrinsic freedom to be able to hold whatever abstract beliefs we want. (sure, we can argue if invading Iraq is good/bad with evidence and logic, or if socialism would be the downfall of the world with the same (which it would be), but we can't really PROVE anyone's spiritual beliefs right/wrong, well, until we die)

Thanks again for all of your posts, and keep em up, especially in response to my last one. I really would like to hear what people have to say about their own lives and about any sort of flaws that you see in my beliefs.

As for Race disagreeing with Jag's beliefs (if it was intended), i'd have to agree too. I disagree with any belief that does not acknowledge God, but it doesn't mean anything. There's always a disagreement if there are two different beliefs (Agnostic vs Christian) (Muslim vs Jew), but it only becomes a problem if people start condemning others and trying to threaten them.

I personally take a very laid back approach to religious tolerance. I firmly believe that my beliefs are right, and I have a very high opinion of myself, but I have an open mind, and there's always a chance that i'm wrong and other people are right, so I don't like the idea of making a moron out of myself by being hostile and condemning everyone that doesn't believe the way I do and then being proven wrong at some point. Anyway, lets talk about life!

[Guest]

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By Dredd

As for Race disagreeing with Jag's beliefs (if it was intended), i'd have to agree too. I disagree with any belief that does not acknowledge God

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Agnosticism is the belief that no church has the power to be between you and god. I do not believe that any church is the go between. That is why I said I am agnostic.

You obviously think that being agnostic somehow does not ackowledge god, when in fact it is the exact opposite.

But because you are all pretty young, I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and think that you somehow got the definition wrong.

I do not believe that any church has the power to tell me what to believe and that I have to be a member of that particular church to know god. No church, NONE, is the sole proprietor of truth, and NONE have the power to be my go between, and no church has the power to tell me what my relationship with God must be. That is why I am agnostic, along with a few other reasons that I will not delve into here, unless invited to.

[ 09-06-2002, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

[Cruis.In]

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People my age typically can't, or are too busy getting drunk or high to. Sorta hard to use higher level brain functions when the brain is full of crack and pot (not to insult anyone here that may use them, but it IS proven).

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we have a word those persons...punks

we love to lock up punks!

[Guest Grayfox]

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

I do not believe that any church has the power to tell me what to believe and that I have to be a member of that particular church to know god. No church, NONE, is the sole proprietor of truth, and NONE have the power to be my go between, and no church has the power to tell me what my relationship with God must be

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thats pretty much how i believe... that the church should not tell me what to do in order to get gods attention... didnt know it was called agnostic though.

heh learn something new every day

[Menchise]

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And I found Menchise personal beliefs very interesting, look at hinduism or Pagan Menchise, they are pretty close to what you are saying are your beliefs.

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Those two religions seem quite different to me, especially Hinduism, because they involve worship of deities. I don't believe in such worship. I'm not saying there's no god or goddess or that nature wasn't created by such beings; I just believe that it's irrelevant. The health of nature is in human hands now, and it's up to us to take care of it.

[Charles Lindsey]

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Agnosticism is the belief that no church has the power to be between you and god. I do not believe that any church is the go between. That is why I said I am agnostic.

You obviously think that being agnostic somehow does not ackowledge god, when in fact it is the exact opposite.

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I wouldn't mind knowing where you got that definition. That is not how Webster's defines it.

" a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god "

Not to nitpick but..... that belief is fine just I think calling it agnostic is somewhat incorrect. No flames meant at all.

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Aren't the mods the zealots anyway?

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For BCM? Sure!

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Anyway, lets talk about life!

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Stick with whatever you decide. Ever heard slow and steady wins the race? I think it's good you are asking these questions now rather than when you are twenty five. Go to college if you possibly can. That is one of my biggest regrets that I did not finish my education.

Your basic plan youposted above sounds good. Stick with it.

[Guest Remo Williams]

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I do not believe that any church has the power to tell me what to believe and that I have to be a member of that particular church to know god. No church, NONE, is the sole proprietor of truth, and NONE have the power to be my go between, and no church has the power to tell me what my relationship with God must be.

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I agree, well said.

[Cruis.In]

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I do not believe that any church has the power to tell me what to believe and that I have to be a member of that particular church to know god. No church, NONE, is the sole proprietor of truth, and NONE have the power to be my go between, and no church has the power to tell me what my relationship with God must be.

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aren't you getting a little carried away with the no church has the power to etc etc...to be quite frank no one has the power to make you do anything not just a church.

but some of what you said to me...makes it sound more to me like you would be describing a "cult".

A church doesn't force you or anyone to do anything.

a church is a place to worship from.

[Guest Grayfox]

i look at it like this:

why do i need a church to worship god? shouldnt i be able to do that on my own?

most believe in going to church, and thats fine. me, i just dont believe in the church itself, but i definitely believe in god.

does that sound strange? id go into more detail, but i would not want to offend anyone on accident (because i sure as hell wouldnt do it on purpose... not about this topic anyway )

its just that someone might take offense to my explanation is all.

[Guest]

Well, In all honesty, Churches fit the description of a cult quite well.

Cult

1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP

2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents

Fits quite well, don't ya think?

[CommanderJohnson]

Yeah, I have to attend Catholic mass due to the scohol I attend, and quite often I wonder how similar it seems to a cult.

I am rather confident about my perception of the word "agnostic". I think it's dervied from roots that equal "dont know" or "not know" something like that. Atheists deny the existance of God, agnostics aren't sure/don't know/don't think there is any proof, thus I would disagree with "not knowing", but I would agree with the belief that religious institutions aren't necessarily the way to go.

So, any comments about my 3rd or 4th post with all the different points? Any more life stories?

[Charles Lindsey]

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So, any comments about my 3rd or 4th post with all the different points?

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[Jumps up and down waving arms.] Second (third?) to last post first page. See it? Feedback important this time.

To answer the three post directly above churches offer a sense of fellowship, community, and ritual. Some people, probably lots, find comfort in the ritual of church. If you find you don't need that then that's ok I think.

[Cruis.In]

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does that sound strange

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no. it is certainly not strange to believe

in god or believe there is one and not go to church.

i am a mormon. i have not gone to church for a long time.

really Jaguar... A church as it's supposed to be without all the variations/interpretations/perversions could never be perceived as a cult.

what you said may describe something which people have perverted.

[ 09-08-2002, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Cruis.In ]

[Epsilon 5]

I haven't read all the thread in details, but anyway ...

I'm a christian, and catholic over it. I believe in god, I believe there is a superior being overseeing the universe, and that he has granted me life (of course, my parents did too, but not in the same way) . however, I don't go to church, and seldomly pray, so I guess that makes me an agnostic. I have little belief in miracles, but yet there are some things that I won't deny. For the rest, science does good enough for me.

Life? I've been a store clerk for 2 months now, my first job, and enjoy it. Althought it becomes very dull at times (I feel I'm acting like a robot by times), I always think that it could be worse, that I could be working in a McDo or even in a shop (I'm not physically strong enough for that kind of stuff). I do my best, and I think I'm doing great at what I'm asked, however I feel my superiors think I'm not doing good enough, and it's rather confusing for me. I try to work as fast as I can, smile / greet / help everyone that goes by me, and remember where is X item someone asked me about, but I keep getting pressured to do better, since I should be doing better...

The pay is good (considering the minimum wage) and althought I'm not working full time yet, I feel it's better that way ... for the moment.

[ 09-08-2002, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: Epsilon 5 ]

[CommanderJohnson]

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Originally posted by Charles Lindsey:

[QB]

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So, any comments about my 3rd or 4th post with all the different points?

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[Jumps up and down waving arms.] Second (third?) to last post first page. See it? Feedback important this time.

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Not sure if you meant you wanted my feedback to it, but anyway, thanks for that post, and i'm planning on going to college no matter what, and then going into the AF as an officer.

[LordDavid]

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

Well, In all honesty, Churches fit the description of a cult quite well.

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Lets define what a church is according to the Bible.

A church is:

"A local assembly of believers as well as the redeemed of all the ages who follow Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord"(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary)

(Copyright © 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers).

It was that when the word "church" was used, it refered to all of those who follow Jesus Christ, NOT some building that has services once a week led by a pastor.

The Bible states that followers of Jesus Christ should have fellowship with one another. It does not say go to a building on Sunday at 10:00 am in the morning and be force fed a person's personal view/interpertation (which may be flawed) of the Bible or some other text.

Going to a church on Sunday at 10 am in the morning is ONE way to have fellowship with other people who have the same beliefs as ones self. So in conclusion based on what I stated above, going to church is a good thing, a place to have fellowship with other people with the same beliefs as ones self, and to learn more about and to affirm what one believes in; yet technically according to the Bible, it is not a sin or wrong to not go to a building called a "church."

[ 09-08-2002, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: LordDavid ]

[Raven]

Gack! Did this thread ever evolve!

First, to address the original topic of this thread.

I would say that you have to find someone to share your life with, and focus on yourself and that one other person. Make your personal enjoyment, and that of your partner, the goal of your life, and to hell with everyone else. Of course, IÔÇÖm a shameless hedonist and something of a sociopath, so perhaps that colors my views.

As far as religion goes, many of you may recall that IÔÇÖm an atheist. I donÔÇÖt believe in miracles, simply unexplained (but not unexplainable) phenomena. If there is some supreme being (which I supremely doubt) then he (or she, or it) is a creature of science as much as we are, simply more advanced. Anything beyond a peopleÔÇÖs ability to explain with science tends to be relegated to the category of magic. If you showed a laser pointer to a group of aborigines who had never seen modern technology before, they would think it was magic, but it isnÔÇÖt, its science. All the phenomena that are explained through religion, these are just that, phenomena. The existence of human life, the joy someone may take in helping another, the cruelty of an untimely death, or narrowly avoiding misfortune. ItÔÇÖs like the laser pointer, beyond our knowledge, but not in the least magical or divine.

So what does this mean for DreddÔÇÖs question? It means that yes, we are biological machines that exist solely because we happen to be a type of biological machine that is good at self replication and survival. It means that, as biological machine, our function is to exist so long as to reproduce and then to assist our offspring (and the offspring of others of our species) in existing long enough to reproduce, and so fourth and so on until our extinction.

Pretty miserable philosophy eh? But then, the truth is so often bitter and lies so often sweet. So, youÔÇÖre a self replicating (though not all by yourself) biological machine whose function is reproduction and existence, what do you do? My answer would be forget about all that, forget about reproducing and assisting the next generation in existing long enough to reproduce, why bother. Have fun, either by your self or with someone you love, and to hell with the rest of humanity.

Now, that I have added my humble (?) opinion to everyone elseÔÇÖs, I would like to comment on what some of you said.

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I mean Dredd is 18y/o!! I'm suprised people his age can stop masturbating long enough to think those thoughts.

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Umm thats rather ageist. I read that and I was more then a little offended, I mean Im not a dreadfully nice person, but thats just rude, not to mention crass. Making a generalization about someone because of there age is one thing, but thats an extremely strong, not to mention incorrect, statement (I mean, think about it for a moment, how long can you actually masturbate at a time anyway, one would think you would get rather raw after a while). Why do you think I never mention my age, its a prime excuse for belittling someones ideas. Ether your too young, and you will come to agree with me as you mature (objections are moot, because its obvious you will change), or else youre an old fart, with dated ideals (and perhaps a touch of senility) even if your not all that old. Bah! You cant win!

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we have a word those persons...punks

we love to lock up punks!

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Um Im not going to get started (primarily because I dont feel any kinship to punks) but thats more then a little hostile. Maybe Im takes this wrong, but it makes you sound like a real zealot.

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aren't you getting a little carried away with the no church has the power to etc etc...to be quite frank no one has the power to make you do anything not just a church.

but some of what you said to me...makes it sound more to me like you would be describing a "cult".

A church doesn't force you or anyone to do anything.

a church is a place to worship from.

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Actually, a church can also be a religious institution. When I say catholic church do you assume IÔÇÖm talking about a locality? I should hope not, and it is this second definition of church that Jaguar is referring to.

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That is why I am agnostic, along with a few other reasons that I will not delve into here, unless invited to.

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I'm curious, consider yourself invited.

[Cruis.In]

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Maybe IÔÇÖm takes this wrong

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maybe look at it this way. It is well liked...to lock up anyone committing serious breaches of law.

or - the pursuit of offenders and the prosecution of said offenders.

Can't do the job if you don't like it.

maybe it did come off wrong.

I said that to say...that anyone who thinks they can do something and get away with it is wrong...as long as I (or my collegues) know that they did it.

amen

[CommanderJohnson]

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Originally posted by Dragon Lady:

I would say that you have to find someone to share your life with, and focus on yourself and that one other person. Make your personal enjoyment, and that of your partner, the goal of your life, and to hell with everyone else. Of course, IÔÇÖm a shameless hedonist and something of a sociopath, so perhaps that colors my views.

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Your view doesn't really seem tainted by hedonism. Everyone on here seems to agree that a big part of life is finding someone/something to focus on/care about.

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As far as religion goes, many of you may recall that IÔÇÖm an atheist. I donÔÇÖt believe in miracles, simply unexplained (but not unexplainable) phenomena. If there is some supreme being (which I supremely doubt) then he (or she, or it) is a creature of science as much as we are, simply more advanced. Anything beyond a peopleÔÇÖs ability to explain with science tends to be relegated to the category of magic. If you showed a laser pointer to a group of aborigines who had never seen modern technology before, they would think it was magic, but it isnÔÇÖt, its science. All the phenomena that are explained through religion, these are just that, phenomena. The existence of human life, the joy someone may take in helping another, the cruelty of an untimely death, or narrowly avoiding misfortune. ItÔÇÖs like the laser pointer, beyond our knowledge, but not in the least magical or divine.

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Ahh, I wanna disagree with this but I don't want this thread to get totally off topic. Might want to respost in the thread i'm about to create if you want.

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So what does this mean for DreddÔÇÖs question? It means that yes, we are biological machines that exist solely because we happen to be a type of biological machine that is good at self replication and survival. It means that, as biological machine, our function is to exist so long as to reproduce and then to assist our offspring (and the offspring of others of our species) in existing long enough to reproduce, and so fourth and so on until our extinction.

Pretty miserable philosophy eh? But then, the truth is so often bitter and lies so often sweet. So, youÔÇÖre a self replicating (though not all by yourself) biological machine whose function is reproduction and existence, what do you do? My answer would be forget about all that, forget about reproducing and assisting the next generation in existing long enough to reproduce, why bother. Have fun, either by your self or with someone you love, and to hell with the rest of humanity.

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Wow. That IS depressing. Thanks for the insight. One day I may look back and think "wow, she was right", but for now (as i've previously posted), I think way too highly of myself to give up on the reality/illusion that I have massive potential beyond that. Dont get me wrong though. If Dragon Lady or anyone else shares a view that seems to contradict my idea that I and other humans are great and should have some massive potential beyond what it seems like, feel free to post or explain even more. I really would like to understand the "humans=biology only" philosophy, since I have been indocterinated with much catholic religious teachings and I am very, very arrogant/self-confident, however you want to put it. Feel free to post here or on the new religion topic, depending on what your view is justified on. (If your saying we're more because of God/religion, post there. if your saying it is because of personal theory and belief and experience, post here)

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Umm thats rather ageist. I read that and I was more then a little offended, I mean Im not a dreadfully nice person, but thats just rude, not to mention crass. Making a generalization about someone because of there age is one thing, but thats an extremely strong, not to mention incorrect, statement (I mean, think about it for a moment, how long can you actually masturbate at a time anyway, one would think you would get rather raw after a while). Why do you think I never mention my age, its a prime excuse for belittling someones ideas. Ether your too young, and you will come to agree with me as you mature (objections are moot, because its obvious you will change), or else youre an old fart, with dated ideals (and perhaps a touch of senility) even if your not all that old. Bah! You cant win!

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Ah, well, he was justified with the generalization. Most teenagers I know, when I talk to them, are really deep people and have a lot of potential, but their actions toward others and in groups show very little thought beyond personal pleasure and self-gratification. They'll eventually come around, but most teenagers would not take the time to critically question their activities, motives, and beliefs.

I normally keep my age secret, but I know people here aren't going to dismiss my beliefs due to my age (as proven on the many liberal vs conservative debates), and it was relevent to the topic at hand. Also, if anyone was ever stupid enough to dismiss me due to my age, i'd probably post a nice rant about how many ways that shows that their argumentation is flawed .

Anyway, So Dragon Lady, how old are you?

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we have a word those persons...punks

we love to lock up punks!

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Um Im not going to get started (primarily because I dont feel any kinship to punks) but thats more then a little hostile. Maybe Im takes this wrong, but it makes you sound like a real zealot.

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We gotta have zealot cops. Rather have em locking up every criminal than letting em all run free.