December PC Gamer

[Guest $iLk]

Big Doom III preview in this one, as well as a quote from the SC in the "who's saying what in the world of gaming" section.

The Doom III section goes over the story, weapons, characters, and all new screenshots.

[Guest Grayfox]

another doom??? wasnt 1 & 2 enough??? my god i better watch out, they might come out with pacman 3d next, or xTr3m3 m00n p4tR01.

for the love of pete, please make the bad men stop!!!

[Raven]

Its horrible were doomed

[AWells]

I don't know... Doom III looks good if you've seen the screenshots. I've heard that will have an entirely feel of gameplay and the game will focus mostly on single player with only rudimentary MP support... somewhat a relief these days when many FPSs are made for MP with only a cobbled together SP game or no single player game at all. It should be interesting to see what it plays like.

[Commander Jamont]

better start upgrading those systems

[Guest $iLk]

Also John Carmak is bragging that he is coding sucky AI because "monsters don't need AI"

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by $iLk:

Also John Carmak is bragging that he is coding sucky AI because "monsters don't need AI"

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He's not coding the AI. And he said no such thing.

[Guest $iLk]

I'm sorry, Carmack isn't coding it, but he is heading up the design.

And two quotes from Carmack:

"Doom III will have spectacular rendering and art, and mediocre AI and multiplay"

-p72 December PC Gamer; John Carmack

Revolutionary AI is low on the priority list for Carmack "because monsters don't need it."

-p74 December PC Gamer; John Carmack

According to Willits Doom III will use "the same basic navigational path system created by Van Waveren as Quake III"

-p74 December PC Gamer; Willits?

Oh and SC, your quote is on p50, from a post on http://www.quartertothree.com/

I was expecting Doom III to have some neat AI for the NPC's instead of the bumbling around and back and forth-ness of the originals.

Wanna talk about eye candy though

Although as expected the polycount seen in the E3 demos, etc. has been toned down quite a bit for gameplay purposes, so there will be some jagginess in characters and not the super smoothness seen in rendered art.

[Raven]

Monsters donÔÇÖt need AI? Someone has been doing just a bit too much crack!

[AWells]

Well, really for a Zombie or something it doesn't need much complex except for pathfinding. Ok, so it needs a bit more than that but nothing compared to what a typical FPS with human looking opponents that should take cover and work as a team with some sort of appearance of logic.

[Raven]

Zombies, sure, that makes sense, but tell me thatÔÇÖs not all you fight in doom 3. Or is it simply that you face off against endless hordes of successively more powerful foes, each one dumber then the last?

[AWells]

Any non-human entity doesn't need the same level of detail in AI programming as a human based character to create a suspension of disbelief. Players are critical of human ai entities because they are familiar with humans... since after all most of us are human, and they expect them to act like humans. However since most non-schizofrenics don't deal with demons on a regular basis, it's easier to be more forgiving about how they act. After all, I don't think most people would think it's odd if the spawn of hell doesn't dive for cover when somebody fires a pistol at it. It doesn't mean the AI is dumb, either, just that there's certain corners that can be cut when dealing with monsters instead of humans.

And also, from what I've heard there won't be any "hordes" of monsters in Doom III... they're more likely to be encountered one or two at a time. Of course that's just impressions of reviewers based on the E3 exhibit.

[Raven]

IÔÇÖm not sure I agree with you on that one, I remember playing Unreal back in the day and one of the coolest features was that the more intelligent enemies will dive behind cover and such not. Maybe aliens have to be smarter then daemons, I donÔÇÖt know, but it seams to me that quality AI is important in any game.

[Epsilon 5]

Rawwr! chaep AI !!!1

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by $iLk:

I'm sorry, Carmack isn't coding it, but he is heading up the design.

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No. He's NOT doing that either. WHERE do you get this stuff from? Repeat after me, ok? JOHN CARMACK IS NOT A GAME DESIGNER OR PRODUCER.

Get it?

quote:

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And two quotes from Carmack:

"Doom III will have spectacular rendering and art, and mediocre AI and multiplay"

-p72 December PC Gamer; John Carmack

Revolutionary AI is low on the priority list for Carmack "because monsters don't need it."

-p74 December PC Gamer; John Carmack

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Yes. So, tell me, how does this equate to him doing AI, as per your first post?

quote:

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Oh and SC, your quote is on p50, from a post on

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I get PCG before you do. I saw the quote already.

quote:

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Originally posted by Litvyak:

Any non-human entity doesn't need the same level of detail in AI programming as a human based character to create a suspension of disbelief. Players are critical of human ai entities because they are familiar with humans... since after all most of us are human, and they expect them to act like humans. However since most non-schizofrenics don't deal with demons on a regular basis, it's easier to be more forgiving about how they act. After all, I don't think most people would think it's odd if the spawn of hell doesn't dive for cover when somebody fires a pistol at it. It doesn't mean the AI is dumb, either, just that there's certain corners that can be cut when dealing with monsters instead of humans.

And also, from what I've heard there won't be any "hordes" of monsters in Doom III... they're more likely to be encountered one or two at a time. Of course that's just impressions of reviewers based on the E3 exhibit.

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Thank you. Thats exactly what the Doom III team is saying. So I dunno how $ilk managed to come up with his own particularly misleading synopsis of this. Thats just how silly rumours spread.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dragon Lady:

IÔÇÖm not sure I agree with you on that one, I remember playing Unreal back in the day and one of the coolest features was that the more intelligent enemies will dive behind cover and such not. Maybe aliens have to be smarter then daemons, I donÔÇÖt know, but it seams to me that quality AI is important in any game.

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You're confusing the issue. Read what he wrote again.

[ 10-23-2002, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Silk]

Enough of this Carmak debate, anybody notice the SC was quoted in the mag? Page 50 under "First-Person Shouters: Who's Saying What Around the World of Gaming" With the caption IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING NICE...

SC:

quote:

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"Yes, I'm egotistical, but the fact is I love me more than I love the next jackass standing next to me. When God said"Love thy neighbor," he didn't say I should blow him, too. As such, I really, truly don't care much for most people. At all. In fact, I have nothing at stake when it comes to lashing out at idiots who find it necessary to declare open season on me"

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This was in responce to his critics on www.quatertothree.com according to the footnote.

I just love how they always paint such a lovely picture of you Derek. They never seem to mention all the hard work and time that you put back into your game community. Oh well you tell em is what I say SC!!!

[ 10-23-2002, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Silk ]

[Supreme Cmdr]

hehe, don't worry about those gits. In fact, here is the thread in question. As you can see, there is a huge debate there about taking things out of context etc etc. QT3 is where all the media and industry types hang around, in case you were wondering. And they have zero tolerance threshold for retards.

[ 10-23-2002, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]