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BCM Subscription Model


Supreme Cmdr
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First, let me say that if you do it, I'll buy it.

But let me tell you what I wouldn't like about it.

The SC is notorious for the issue of invalidating all saved games every time a patch is installed. And yes, there will be patches, as this is beta code.

And, as this is a game that you need to move up the ranks on, that will be annoying. And will probably dissuade me from updating every time there is a patch.

As for the dual CD problem, I would actually require a trade of the beta CD for the boxed CD, but that is kinda hard for mail order folks, but a serial number/time stamp with it is just wrong. I would be buying the beta at store cost, if I decided not to run down to EB to trade up to the latest copy for a while (maybe so I wouldn't have to start over again), I don't want my game to just quit working 'cause it got too old. Plus, what if a bus hits the SC while buying donuts? We would all be sitting with expired games.

So yeah, go ahead and offer it. Those in the official beta testing group won't get it, those that are waiting for a 100% bug free version will wait, quite a while I suppose, those who are unsure will wait for the feedback, the rest of us will buy it. And there are quite a few of the rest of us.

I will end by saying that there must REALLY be a good reason SC is thinking about doing this. Maybe he is really stumped with some issues, maybe he is getting burnt out and needs a few weeks off, maybe both. Maybe the missus needs some huggy time. Maybe he needs some sleep. Maybe he just feels bad that it is not finished yet, so this is a compromise to us, not his values. Maybe he wants to wake up with a smile tomorrow, instead of the self-imposed deadline staring him in the face. ...Maybe I'm all wrong.

But whatever the reason, I'll give you a break.

I’ll buy. I for one don’t fear you running out on us. Besides, your unfinished product is still far better than most other’s finished work.

Best Regards,

Scotty

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I have stuck by you for years, Derek, and always waited with patience for the upgrages that you promised. You never failed to come through. I personally can wait and really don't think that it is that great of an idea to send out a partially finished product; however, there will be those that can't wait. The ones that have been with BCK and BCMdev understand just how important it is to get this to the public as a GOLD lable. The people out there that love to hate Derek Smart will be drooling at the chance to blast the partially finished version.

Please present the world with the finished CD and don't give in to the drooling hoard. It will be hard to wait but I am used to "It will be ready when it is ready and it ain't ready."

Keep the fires burning, we are all pulling for you...

'MAX'

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Originally posted by Scotty:

"Plus, what if a bus hits the SC while buying donuts? We would all be sitting with expired games."

Yeah, but what great memories we would always have, plus there's the demo.

Ok, jokes aside, we all want to get our paws on the game, but it's got like what a month or two to go? Lets just wait and bug SC a little less so that he can go ahead and finish it, unless there's some kind of monetary problems I think it's better to just hold on a little longer.

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Guest Blackwell

Gentlemen,

I don't make a lot of posts but this is important. Don't do it Derek. The loyal fans will wait, the rest are irrelevant

Blackwell

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quote:


and draw some quick revenue

Which part of my statements was unclear? Just tell me and I will clear it up. This whole sub issue has NOTHING to do with money.

Points

  1. I know how to handle that, you just don't know the full picture.

  2. I handle serialization right now just fine, and doesn't cost me ANY dev downtime. And I don't need to hire YOUR company to do it, either. All I need is for Justin to use the SDK and setup an automated web base system for people who nix their serial numbers (a common occurence in the Beta program) - this way, it doesn't have to be done manually. ATM, when someone nixes their version, I just match their serial number against the database (to authenticate it) and issue an unlock code (can be with or without expiration or extension). No big deal.

  3. Thats not what I was planning on doing

  4. Rubbish. And why should it matter to you?

  5. Thats just a fact of any development, as it pertains to end-users. Even for a finished game, you still get people who don't RTFM. So, this is to be expected and bears absolutely NO relevance to the premise therein.

quote:


I will end by saying that there must REALLY be a good reason SC is thinking about doing this. Maybe he is really stumped with some issues, maybe he is getting burnt out and needs a few weeks off, maybe both. Maybe the missus needs some huggy time. Maybe he needs some sleep. Maybe he just feels bad that it is not finished yet, so this is a compromise to us, not his values. Maybe he wants to wake up with a smile tomorrow, instead of the self-imposed deadline staring him in the face.

NONE of the above

It just occured to me when I was in Best Buy picking up some CD-RWs and saw them selling an EMPTY box for Max Payne. Also, there are a LOT of sub based games on the market.

...and while this is increasing to a fevered pitch, remember to read my dev diary again. I didn't say that I WAS going to do it - I said that I was THINKING about it.

Anyway, before this gets out of hand, lets just get this out of the way, I'm not going to do it. Anyone who wants to wait, can wait. And if you can't wait, then, run along to EB

and cancel your pre-order. Makes absolutely NO difference to me whatsoever.

Thats the end of that I think. Thanks for participating.

[ 07-19-2001: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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Guest pinskinski

My first post too, but I've been lurking here for ages.

I work as a product manager for a number of software projects and I would tend to agree with the way this debate is moving. Don't ship a 90% product - the disadvantages outlined above are true. I still play BC3K 2.09 a lot (even in software mode), and have a brand new pc waiting patiently for BCM. Concentrate on the final version, using the excellent developer/tester community you have - a pre-release version would only confuse things.

However, great thinking to freeware 2.09 - this will generate a lot more interest in the run up to BCM.

Waiting patiently...

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quote:


Thats not what I was planning on doing


I know. That's why I pointed it out.

quote:


Rubbish. And why should it matter to you?

It DOESN'T matter to me. I couldn't care less, to be honest. That's the nature of capitalism. I was just pointing it out.

quote:


Thats just a fact of any development, as it pertains to end-users. Even for a finished game, you still get people who don't RTFM. So, this is to be expected and bears absolutely NO relevance to the premise therein.

That's not my point. A WIP will surely have problems that a final release doesn't have -- otherwise it would be a final release.

quote:


I handle serialization right now just fine, and doesn't cost me ANY dev downtime.

Yeah, because you're not handling it with the public-at-large.

quote:


And I don't need to hire YOUR company to do it, either.

LOL! I got you to click, though.

quote:


All I need is for Justin to use the SDK and setup an automated web base system for people who nix their serial numbers (a common occurence in the Beta program) - this way, it doesn't have to be done manually. ATM, when someone nixes their version, I just match their serial number against the database (to authenticate it) and issue an unlock code (can be with or without expiration or extension). No big deal.

That's what I was talking about when I said that you could hire a company to do it.

quote:


Which part of my statements was unclear? Just tell me and I will clear it up. This whole sub issue has NOTHING to do with money.

I'm not saying that your decision has anything to do with money. I'm simply saying that it will affect the bottom line.

But if you don't want a devil's advocate, I'll stop.

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I'm glad that you opted against it. It seemed an added level of customer-side complication (Knowing how many impressively stupid people are out there) that I'm sure you diden't really want to deal with. Besides, if I got my hands on BCM any sooner, the thought terrifies me of the productivity I'd lose. Lord knows I'll be losing enough when I get my hands of Max Payne this coming Monday.

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quote:


Then again, there hasn't a very big increase in newbies here. I remember how I joined the forum right before the Episode 1 Demo came out. So did around 250 other users. Then, after that, around 80% stopped coming here. Same with E2, (only around 75-125 newbies though), and then most just quit

uhm, Nova, how did you arrive at these figures?

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Since the final game will invalidate all Beta file formats, no, you don't end up with two copies of the game.

Probably a stupid question, but what about your saved game? Let's say you've put about 30 hours into the beta, then the full version comes out, are you going to have to start a new game, or will you be able to transfer your data to the new game?

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Capt He-Man,

A Beta is a Beta is a Beta. Which means it's a Beta.

The point is moot anyway, since the SC decided not to release it.

FWIW: Better to wait for the gold release before you start investing that much time in a saved game.

As an external tester, I can and have invested between six and eight hours in a single game. Then the next patch comes out and all saved games are down the tube. No biggie, I just start over, searching for new bugs. That's what beta testing is all about.

When I tested MMORPG's, it was really a great deal of fun racing all the other testers for levels, after a wipe.

Oh BTW, the only dumb question is the one that is not asked.

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