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The one china policy

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LOL

All my live I have lived in a country with a socialist governement.Only with the switch to Mr.Aznar I saw another class of governement.Now the balance power has switched again to socialist.I cant say im happy with what was done by the last governement, neither Im hapy with socialists again.

What I see is the country grew well economically,but the people who has to go to work everyday generally lost.Now the new governement will try to help the worker and the poor,possibly at expenses of the motherland┬┤s economy grow.

I think its good to switch powers and dont let them keep it for long.Capitalism and socialism are 2 good ideas, but none of them is truly a good solution.You need to find balance between them.

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quote:


Originally posted by Jaguar:

Well, Wolferz, I don't agree with that Class Warfare rhetoric.


You don't have to agree and far be it from me to attempt to force you to do so. I, like you, am only offering, in rebuttal, my opinion of the world around me.

quote:


Jag Said:
Yes, there are some rich people that are doing what they can to destroy us,
but there are also poor people and middle class people that are attempting to destroy us.

I agree with the first line of that statement.

But I fail to see any truth in the rest of it. Care to elaborate?

It is the wealthy elite who create the poor by controlling the rule of law and the wages of the workers. They gain their wealth by keeping the workers' wages suppressed to the bare minimum of existence, but not so much as to cause the workers' demise. It is this truth that led to the rise of Communism.(read The Communist Manefesto by Karl Marx)

quote:


Jag said:To blame one class of people is the same as blaming the sun for setting at night and rising in the morning.

Metaphor is not a proper rebuttal.

quote:


Jag said:socialism is destroying us, and it will continue to destroy us. This Robin Hood attitude of the Democrats and the Republicans will be our downfall. The continued overtaxing of those that earn the wealth and the passing out to those who don't earn the wealth.

That was an interesting statement and tells me that you are not aware of the definition of the word Socialism Do some digging and you will discover that our government hands out more money to wealthy welfare queens than every poor person in the country combined.

quote:


Jag said:Your idea is an old one and a dangerous one, it is that attitude that has created the forces that will destroy us. You are one of the ones that have created the morass that will be our downfall.

It Wasn't my idea and I only speak the truth as I see it from the information at hand.

I also agree that we are sinking in the Quick mud but, I didn't help create the swamp.

Unless you think I spent my life driving junkers and eating bologna while my employers drove Cadillacs and Corvettes and dined lavishly, while every year I paid enough taxes combined to buy a house, on wages that were always below my experience helped to create the swamp.

Then I am guilty as charged.

Making Accusatory statements in a debate is bad form and should be left in the mudslinging realm of the politicians.

"Just the facts, Ma'am"

quote:


Jag said: You may know history, too bad you ignore it what is actually occurring and did occurr.

Class warfare is what is destroying us, and your continued preaching of such nonsense will bring that destruction on even faster

Too bad you haven't figured out the message, instead of spreading the disease.


Hmmm, 3 accusatory statements in one rebuttal, tsk tsk. C'mon Jag, You're an intelligent fellow and can do better than that.

Don't worry about me, Jag 'ol buddy. I have figured out alot more than you give me credit for and certainly alot more than our wealthy overseers in Washington want me to know.

Give it time and sooner or later there will come a rainstorm to put out the forest fire that gives these criminals their smokescreen.

You know what's left after a forest fire?

That's right...nothing but naked charred trees and no place to hide, which will make hunting vermin all the easier.

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quote:

I think its good to switch powers and dont let them keep it for long.Capitalism and socialism are 2 good ideas, but none of them is truly a good solution.You need to find balance between them.

LOL what you are describing, is a general description of the American political system: other than the fact that we have a capitolist agenda within both sides of the spectrum.

Though our swing from end to end, is more of a structure developed to place a check and balance to ensure dictorial and monoarchistic power never takes hold. We are, in fact changing; though many refuse to see the change.

Theoretical debate throughout the years, has always stated, that TRUE SOCIALISM would be the IDEAL; however, this could only be accomplished if there were no GREED or PERSONAL ambition within the ranks of those in power. I do not believe this is possible, as it is basic to the nature of mankind to have Both these qualities.

Another thing: Socialistic, and capitolistic ideology; are both brought into existance through change in CULTURE and what the population views as viable solutions to it's problems.

Unfortunately, culture takes time to change, and is usually done through infiltration of the educational systems. this normally takes time.

I do not like socialism, and I abhore the ideals of communisum. I see capitolism as less than perfect, but seeing all three with my own eyes, I must say the capitolistic way is the easiest upon its general population, but ONLY as long as the population maintains good morality and personal ethics. If you eliminate those, capitolism would be horrendous, and near impossible for the lower classes to endure.

[ 04-19-2004, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: street ]

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News of Taiwan

News of Defense Spending and much much more.

Spacewar

Anyone seen this one?

"Aint no time to wonder why,Whoopee we're all gonna die"

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Balloogan, remove the sig.....

One and only warning....

And thank you for that interesting info, never heard of that. Interesting read that's for sure.

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quote:

Originally posted by Wolferz:

News of Taiwan

News of Defense Spending and much much more.

Anyone seen this one?

"Aint no time to wonder why,Whoopee we're all gonna die"

Not a bad article, Taiwan takes it's defense VERY seriously. I wonder if we ever got them their Diesel submarines?

We promised them, I think 3, Diesel subs, and guess what, we no longer have the technology to make them. We can only make Nuclear subs, Germany and Holland, I believe are the only ones capable of building Diesel submarines anymore, and they refused to do it.

Anyway, pretty good article, thanks Wolferz.

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I think that our works are still capable of building such stuff.... our navy god a brand new sub recently....

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Most Welcome, Jag I thought the website would offer a great deal of insight on current events.

And I agree

That was some very interesting info, Baloogan.

Things that make you go...hmmmm

Just an off topic side note....I have been hearing C-130 transports flying over my home at regular intervals for the last couple of days.

My guess is the Military is shoring up somewhere.

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Not making fun, just a bit flabbergasted that folks would even consider it interesting.

His whole reasoning to travel to 1975 for an old IBM computer because they need it for translation purposes is absurd. My first thought when I read that...what is the one thing that ALL computers have in common? Binary language.

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Not to put down mister titor, but personally, I believe he is attempting to pull someones VERY LONG chain!!

There are inconsistancies in his story, as you read along, though his knowledge in CURRENT theory and debates concerning issues relative to TIME travel were quite extensive.

The whole read was very amusing, and quite entertaining..

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quote:


Originally posted by Grizzle:

Not making fun, just a bit flabbergasted that folks would even consider it interesting.

His whole reasoning to travel to 1975 for an old IBM computer because they need it for translation purposes is absurd. My first thought when I read that...what is the one thing that ALL computers have in common? Binary language.


Well, I love Science Fiction, that is why I found it interesting

LOL Kinda like the Y2K apocalypse hoax I think

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Yeah Wolferz, I think the guy was spurred on by the whole Y2K thing.

I didn't really think you guys thought it was interesting in a plausible sense, but glad you cleared it up.

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go3000ad, if the people that live in Taiwan now were to vote to be independent or to join communist china ... what would the result be?

Its just like Texas had a couple of years back.. Texas never really joined the USA 'officially' and a vote was held where Texans were asked if they wanted to be the Republic of Texas or the State of Texas (USA). Guess how that went.

Or just like Quebec was given the chance to vote to be independent or to be a part of Canada. Guess how that went.

The PEOPLE chose what they wanted. That is what MAINLAND china fears the most. They KNOW the Taiwanese will vote to be independent if given the chance. And that is why mainland china keeps thumping its chest threatening armed conflict if Taiwan declares itself independent... a chest thumping that nowadays is ridiculous, as ANY aggression to Taiwan will bring the USA and very likely Europe & Brit Commonwealth and Russia AND if it gets real serious, Japan into a fray where China is *SERIOUSLY* outgunned and outclassed.

They may have 1 billion people... facing weapons designed to kill thousands in mere seconds. You do the math.

Matter of fact, Taiwan could singlehandedly repel ANY mainland chinese attack. And its getting stronger per every Aegis cruiser and F-15/F16 the US supplies Taiwan with.

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Deepfreeze. you make like to read this

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of

government. It can only exist until the voters

discover that they can vote themselves largesse

(generous gifts) from the public treasury. From that

moment on, the majority always votes for the

candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with

the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy,

(which is) always followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's greatest civilization

has been two hundred years. These nations have

progressed through this sequence. From bondage to

spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great

courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to

abundance; from abundance to complacency; from

complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence;

from dependence back into bondage. "

dont have a source, but its from some college proffessor.

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Well, I don't entirely believe the whole John Titor story, but it is a good read, and some of the things he alluded to have happened (though some argue he alluded to them rather vaguely). But you're right, the whole thing with the IBM computer is rather silly-sounding, and doesn't make sense that in the future they can build time machines but need some archaic computer from the 70's to translate some code.

And about that quote, I think I read that somewhere, but I can't remember when.

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quote:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:

from bondage to spiritual faith;

from spiritual faith to great courage;

from courage to liberty;

from liberty to abundance;

from abundance to selfishness;

from selfishness to complacency;

from complacency to apathy;

from apathy to dependency;

from dependency back again to bondage." Source.

Written by Scottish jurist and historian Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler (1742-1813)
, nearly two centuries ago while the thirteen original United States of America were still colonies of Great Britain. At the time Tytler was writing of the decline and fall of the Athenian Republic over two thousand years before.


There ya go Tac, and where are we now?

Dependency is right around the corner, if not already here.

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Guest $iLk

Maybe just maybe if we can push enough liberals out of the government the feel good policies that plunder the national treasury might can be reversed... assuming the "War on Terror" spending get's curbed a bit.

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..................Being Alive................

The only reason for living is being fully alive;

and you can't be fully alive if you are crushed by secret fear,

and bullied with the threat: Get money, or eat dirt! -

and forced to do a thousand mean things meaner than your nature,

and forced to clutch on to possessions in the hope they'll make you feel safe,

and forced to watch everyone that comes near you, lest they've come to do you down.

Without a bit of common trust in one another, we can't live.

In the end, we go insane.

It is the penalty of fear and meanness, being meaner than our natures are.

To be alive, you've got to feel a generous flow,

and under a competitive system that is impossible, really.

The world is waiting for a great new movement of generosity,

or for a great wave of death.

We must change the system, and make living free to all men,

or we must see men die, and then die ourselves.

-- D.H. Lawrence, 1929

Can we do this under a capitalistic government that is controlled by the wealthy few who consider themselves aristocrats? These aristocrats have shaped our government into a military industrial machine, designed for one purpose. To crush any who oppose them with surgical precision.

it's bad enough that we are slaves to our own needs.

And now we are slaves to the greed of a wealthy few who will protect their high station by any means necessary.

We are in serious danger here people.

Debating left wing, right wing, who is right, who is wrong, is pointless. If we don't return to a saner view of our world we will be trampled by the greed of a few who consider themselves, for lack of a better word, Arian.

In reality they are nothing more than criminals gaining their wealth from the misery and suffering of the peoples of this planet.

quote:


There is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents... There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class... The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent its ascendency."

--Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:396

Well,The provision was made in the Bill of Rights and the checks and balance structure of the federal government But was beginning to be subverted even before we were the 13 United States by guess who?

The father of our country,George Washington himself by creating the Culper Ring....

Three graduates from Yale recruited to spy on the British. One of these three recruits was Nathan Hale. Little did our first president know that this one decision would lead to the usurpation of the government by a rabid bunch of wealthy Hegellian drug running pirates.

Unfortunately, in the eyes of these self proclaimed aristocratic Arians, we are considered property of the state.

In essence we weren't freed from tyranical British rule. We were unwittingly sold into slavery by one of our most revered founding fathers.

Thomas Jefferson apparently had an inkling of this treachery to come, as evidenced by the quote above, but he didn't know just how far and fast it was going to go. I'm sure he has literally spun in his grave.

There is a statue of Nathan Hale that stands on Yale's campus to this day and an identical statue of him that sits in front of CIA headquarters in Langely VA. Does one plus one equal two now?

We are not going to be able to restore true freedom with elections that are rigged to assure the winner.

I guess it's past time to coin a catchy new phrase, but I will anyway: "Forget the milk, got Ammo?"

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I noticed a lot of you have been making large blanket statements about the evil aristocrats who are trying to turn our corrupt government against us and blah blah blah...but would anyone care to elaborate on who exactly these people are and what they're doing, or are you just exaggerating things to prove a point.

quote:

Maybe just maybe if we can push enough liberals out of the government the feel good policies that plunder the national treasury might can be reversed... assuming the "War on Terror" spending get's curbed a bit.


Here comes the liberal vs. conservative war...again...

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