Lotharr

Sterotype: A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image. It's ok....I sort of accept the above as SOP for the ultra conservative elements around these parts. The world's debt has been paid. We need to affect a lasting peace. If both sides have to swallow a bit of crap then so be it. Compromise is never easy.

Here...just for fun.... Using survey data on 12,000 robbery victims found that 55% of the commercial robberies involved guns Cook (1980) A teenager in the United States today is more likely to die of a gunshot wound than from all the "natural" causes of death combined. Fingerhut, 1993. Firearms are readily available on the illegal gun market, and those who are most likely to possess guns are drug sellers and gang members -- overwhelmingly young and male. S.H. Decker, S. Pennel, and A. Caldwell, Illegal Firearms: Access and Use by Arrestees, Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, National Institute of Justice, 1997. Approximately 37,500 gun sales, including 17,800 handgun sales, are completed every day in the United States. The increasing number of gun owners has elevated the danger of guns being acquired illegally through robberies and burglaries. In 1994, more than a quarter-million households experienced the theft of one or more firearms; nearly 600,000 guns were stolen during these burglaries. Cook and Ludwig, 1997. [ 09-27-2002, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

Thanks for the amount....1/4 is still huge money....huge....if America grabs it I wonder who will reap the economic windfall....and wield that power over the economies of others.... [ 09-22-2002, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

quote: Islam is based on world domination, that is a fact, they wish to destroy all those that do NOT believe as they do. We do not believe as they do, they wish to destroy us, end of story. Don't try to take it back...this is what you really think...like most of your beliefs...all black and white...full of hate, narrow minded,lacking thought....it's cool lots of people are like that.... Anyway, I believe Saddam enjoys life. To think he would give away nukes if he ever got them is kinda silly...he needs them under his control..why would he give them away? That makes no sense.. Ok just for fun.... quote: Well, finally someone makes an argument how a war would benefit US oil, and now I realize that the argument is worse than i'd ever have imagined. Nukes work too well. If anyone were to use nukes on the oil it would most likely take enormous resources to get oil production going again...not cost effective.... So if he gets them he can threaten to destroy those resources for everyone....a nightmare for big oil and ever economy that needs oil. That is the reason we are moving as strongly as we are. quote: Not to mention Saddam getting nukes wouldn't stop the other Arab nations or Africa or Russia from exporting oil. How much oil we use do you think comes out of the Middle East? I would bet almost all of it....or maybe it stabilizes the market so we don't have to pay exorbitant prices from other places.... Africa? Russia? No I don't think that is enough for the world...maybe Russia when it gets it flowing in fifteen years.... So we turn Iraq into little America....problem solved...except for the thousands upon thousands of enemies we may have just made.... quote: Arrggh, make up your mind. Calm down take a breath....if he had those weapons he could use them as a deterrent....of a last ditch screw the world strike....but this country might do the same thing in other circumstances....but still not a good thing... quote: If your really into all of the conspiracy theories, why don't you look at the BIGGEST one? Hee hee....libertarians ROCK! We will never subordinate ourselves to anyone bla bla bla....so arrogant.... UN working for the rich? Read the development report...they talk specifically about the threat to democracy BY money....wake up....THIS country is the mecca of wealth....however, wealth has a funny way of collecting and having influence outside of the clear lines of nation state politics...lets talk IMF and world bank.....they are trying to shape the world and I don't recall anyone having a vote on who runs them.... quote: Please, name a nation and provide some newspaper articles, other evidence, or just some analytical arguments or logic. State funded terrorism is mostly out of Iran that is a fact. quote: Also, you contradict yourself! You say we are stopping Iraq from getting WMDs because it'd mess up our oil flow (which makes no sense, especially since war HURTS oil prices and HURTS the economy, you still fail to recognize that oil prices go up from attacking the Middle East), and then you say that Saddam isn't a threat. Ok, so Saddam getting WMDs is OK? War would only hurt in the short term. Full control of the area would let us act like...well...like the UK to America a few years ago....controling that area has some real power.... Anyone having WMD is bad....anyone...even this country....and especially Israel....they don't need it....but if they do why wouldnt everyone else want them also?!? Anyone who violates international law needs to be held to account...anyone. Of course international law needs to be defined fairly and equally by the free world. Until the world realizes a fuller sense of equality this crap will go on and on and on...while law is used by the wealthy to sustain and further its own ends any real democracy/self governance will not be fully realized...I am not saying capitalism is wrong....I just saying that money and politics do not mix with freedom and liberty. In any countryeven one that believes itself to be so pure.

quote: If you are not Muslim, you are to be killed, that's what these terrorists think. So, what are you all going to do about it? You are so off base....you couldn't hide it if you wanted too.... He and various other groups have already declared war on the ruling parties of the majority of Arab countries because while they claim piety...those kings and princes run around party, drink, and basically act like westerners.... This is about oil control. We know that if he acquires radiological weapons he can effectively deny us those resources and big oil is pissing in its pants.... As is the rest of a county who been told its entire well being is based on oil control. And Dredd please stop...they set the oil on fire before but it doesn't work.....and nukes would work too. Why can't people see through the manipulation and BS? The only reason I can think of is because we don't want too. To admit that Aristocracy is alive and well and in control in this country would be too hard in the land of the free.....it would be like everyone in the country really having to take a look at themselves.... Or maybe while publicly well say that Plutocracy is bad.really it has brought us a great standard of living..sort of.. I dont know but lets get real.there are a number of other sources that are more of a threat to us then Iraq.money talks.why pretend?

You guys get that.... Not that I agree that assassination should be legal in any context but...he did try to kill 41 so...those many bullets that fall from the sky when certain people celebrate with AK47 fire into the air can be extremely dangerous authorities warn....it would be a shame if he didn't get that particular memo.... AND 43 would have plausible deniability because everyone knows he isn't in charge of much.....heh heh...it's the small things that get you through...

Good luck man.

I thought assassination is what a rogue nation would do? I thought assassination was considered an act of terrorism and violated international law....but you think stuff like that doesn't need to apply to us...?

Just heard that ol' Rummy actually met with Saddam back in the dayto give him weapons....imagine that...this guy loves playing master of the universe....I wonder how many American deaths Rummy is indirectly responsible for.....If I didnt laugh I think Id have to cry But we got to keep that chin upits a hard ball world.bla bla.BOOM!

Hee hee....whatever Jag....your the one who claims to believe in the Constitution.....we keep doing what were doing and you might find yourself running around in the hills with a high powered rifle....heh heh....but you better run past me cause I ain't sharing my fox hole with the likes of you .... Amazing what a democracy can do....make a soldier that follows orders and retains his or her own personal opinions.....imagine that. Told you..all about the oil..I didnt think you would miss that one.our standard of living should never be threatened by a mad manerthat we put into power because we could predict what he would do.er.uh.duh. [ 09-20-2002, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

I had the privilege of executing over 1000 invading savages earning the vice...or virtue....of Butcher.+2 Dreadthis game is cool

That's funny.....I always thought that would happen because of reaction from an entire culture that views our intervention as "evil"...wait, that is too strong for the whole a culture....how about bull s*it.....oh wait...that's what it is... Oh well time will tell PS. we already filled those trenches guy....our smart bombs ain't that smart and our policies ain't that christian....hehespecial those of our allies.

US Senator Nick Rahall went to Iraq AND was briefed by the CIA. He can't agree that Iraq is an immediate threat. He believes that dealing with the Iraq situation takes a second seat to getting those that have attacked us....the terrorists....imagine that. Saddam may be a sack of sh*t but he called it right...we won't stop until be own that oil....one way or the other. The truth is a waste on these two....if they were to acknowledge the fact the Bush is just a PR rep for big business what other things would they uncover? Where would the questions stop? It could destroy their world.... But drive on man. The truth will come out sooner or later.... [ 09-19-2002, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

America has so much potential. I think we will realize that potential as time moves forward. You feel bad for me and I appreciate it....but it doesn't change the reality of how this country does business....if you choose to ignore this reality and surround yourself with information that only supports your idea's, then your only seeing part of the story....but you aren't alone. I support the removal of Saddam with the sanction of the UN. I support the idea of international law and global cooperation. I do not support unilateral action by any man....elected or otherwise. I do not support the idea that America has some special knowledge or right to lead the world through force of arms....or threat of economic sanction. With a country that is so far behind the power curve (compared to other industrialized democracies) on a majority of issues ranging from; democratic participation of it's citizens, numbers of citizens incarcerated, distribution of wealth, institutionalized racism, nonsustainable (and growing) consumption rates, and a bizarre way of politicians buying office.....I don't know what you call it...governmental access? Where is that claim on leadership? Where is it? It is in the amount of weapons we have and the amount of wealth we gathered (and thereby deny to others)....that doesn't do it for me....it is immoral and ultimately self defeating. So you go with the flow if you want but all these things you believe in usually have a very different reason for being then you, and other sources, would have me believe. But who knows...I'm young and still checking things out...that is why I am going to college to really explore why things are, the way they are....not have it fed to me by CNN. I believe in the idea of law, due process, and fair play....not just for the first class citizens who can afford it....but for everyone of every skin color....foreign and domestic. A commitment to truth is harder to live up to than a commitment to country. IÔÇÖll commit to both, and strive to use the former to help shape the latter.

I did it twice. I was too embarrassed so I stopped. But there were some extremely hot elves running around.... When I was young my friends and I would do this in a forest nearby.....or course we pummeled the crap out each other without mercy....these people were very sensitive about how hard people were hitting....it is like a weekend thing so you have to sleep outside or in a hut of some kind..I went during the winter without the right gear There is a whole other organization that use wood sticks and real amour and beat the crap out of each other while drinking beer....I mean really having it at it....it's cool to watch. Anyway I'll give almost anything a shot...but this was too much.

Hey hey!

Dredd I'm not going sit here and try to convince you...you'll have to grow up for that. This is about big oil. Oppression sucks and we should do everything within the realm of international law to insure democracy spreads. We are supposed to be fighting terrorists. Did you forget that? We did go to Vietnam to "save them". That is a fact. We don't have the right to invade country after country unless they are violating international law....the same law that we spit on with bilateral agreements. You sound like some crusader from 1099. Unilateral action will always cause problems....so we have to be sure in those cases.....and that to me means that our congress would have to make that call....not who ever is really in charge of the Bush admin. This is going nowhere for now so I'm out....but really Dredd, open your eyes and see who calls the shots in this country.....for now anyway..... One dollar one vote. [ 09-17-2002, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

I don't want to quit. I like being a soldier. My first tour was in Korea...as an E-1 in fact. My father fought in Vietnam. My grandfathers in WWII. Ours is the greatest and most professional military in the world. The men and woman who Ive served with are the greatest Americans I know. Active duty soldiers get paid crap and deal with all kinds of sh*t I never want to see again. You think that because I'm a citizen soldier I have to shut up and like our president select and his bogus policies....your wrong..I have to follow orders. I will. I believe in the ideas of truth, due process, and fair play. These ideas have been thrown away, remarketed, repackaged, and sold back to us.and the current version is crap. So I don't pray for war...so what.......I'll leave that to the peanut gallery. But when I see wrong I will speak out. You call it whining I call it the duty of any American that believes in democracy. Yes Jag I know.I know.

Thank god someone out there can see through the BS....Herbie you da' man.... That is why I respect the international community (Europe + Canada)......they have this strange ability to see through the crap my people call truth...heh heh....god bless you Herbie your more of a patriot then those two and you don't even live here....heh heh...

This is getting out of hand.... I guess we both have fairy tale worlds....but in mine, Pax Americana is not a good thing. International law, furthering democracy, and building a sustainable economy take priority..... You advocate the way of empire, might over right, and short term thinking so I cannot agree. In fact, the way you describe these various scenarios tell me that you lack an understanding of history and human nature. I believe that your ideas will ultimately bring war and global destabilization and end by killing more Americans and civilians in general. So I guess we will see what we see.... But honestly I don't have time to respond to all that fantasy. Your military arguments lack practical knowledge and the rest is just hawkish nonsense.....sorry. Heh hehyou typed me into submission...for now... [ 09-16-2002, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

quote: not to mention Stalin was rational and wasn't going to attack us. It is good to see that "liberals" aren't the only ones who believe in fairy tales.... Stalin was a nut....but not suicidal....the same applies to Saddam. Deterrence has been highly effective and will continue to be so... No link can be proven that he supports terrorists...except the families of suicide bombers.... quote: nothing else matters except the 8 first 8 things I listed in my last post I will never agree that the ends justify the means. Understanding why an administration does what it does is critical in a free society....this country was not supposed to resemble a totalitarian regime...and I dont think it was supposed to run by big business.. quote: 1. We wouldn't let the Pakistani government be overrun by extremists AND the leadership is pretty strong in the military to stop it. 2. If it was, we would make sure they get disarmed immediately. 3. If we couldn't get them disarmed we would probably invade before there was a threat. 4. Most likely, even if 1-3 didn't apply, India and Pakistan would kill each other from an extremist takeover before they'd bother us. 5. It doesn't matter who ELSE has nukes, Saddam is currently at the top of the threat list, and the only one to meet all 8 critera from my last post. 1) You think so? So your prepared to have troops there also? How many and how long and what cost? 2) How? 3) With what force, how fast, where would the build up without getting nuked? Attacking a country like that is a bit different from Iraq.... 4) What is wrong with you....if they start shooting nukes at each other it could lead to possible global destruction....what is wrong with you? 5) Yeah I thought the terrorists were....I wonder who it will be tomorrow... quote: Yeah, and Bin Laden knew that if his terrorists attacked the US, his entire training infrastructure in Afghanistan would be destroyed, his supporters would be killed, and he would probably be killed (which he is now). What is wrong with you?!?!?! He knew exactly what he was doing....we have caught how many out of the possible hundreds or even thousands of terrorists? His networks are intact and his organization is made to work under present conditions......and he probably wants us to attack Iraqwake up. quote: Saddam has cared very little for his or his country's well-being in the past, he wont care if he's nuked. We put him power because we know he will always act in his best interest...face it. Your argument doesn't work. You buy all this crap but he is presently not a threat....and may not be for years if ever.... quote: We should take out all the oppressive/totalitarian regimes. Solve all our problems. How bout we do one thing at a time hero...like kill the terrorists.....I guess it is more fun to put on a light show and justify that HUGE budget.... We'll see if we solve the problem when we face the blow back of an Iraqi invasion....

Yeah just got cable again..... I've always liked Vulcans....

We may be under attack by....us.

No kidding...I haven't heard anything about it....

Plenty of nuts have nukes...well...maybe not yet...however if the Pakistani government is overrun buy extremist then Iraq would be a freakin joke... quote: HOW MANY AMERICANS MUST DIE, You tell me...Iraq is not the threat. Saddam knows if he does anything with WMD his country is a glowing plain of glass....so where is the emergency?