Lotharr

I'll second that....

I think both Menchise and $ilk make good points. The strength of democracy is putting power in the hands of the people. That has to be protected. But...only my opinion here.... I think there needs to be some (maybe major) changes to the American election system. But military service may or may not be the way to go....But I still think people should have to do something to help the whole regardless. [ 05-06-2002, 12:31: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

I know I've learned to appreciate things. The health care system on active duty is beyond ridiculous. So are the barracks. So is the pay. And these are the standards of today. I hear the stories of how it used to be. Could I have made it...you bet. I just feel bad for that soldier who is trying to feed his family and has to make it a career 'cause it's all he knows.

Paddy...can I call you Paddy?, I bet you (or one of the people involved with the brick incident) could file a complaint with the department and possibly pursue further legal courses of action and maybe make a profit. I hate people who sue for no reason but it's the best way to get an agency to clean up their act....hit when it hurts....in the wallet. Of course I don't know how they handle things on your side of the world. Usually there is a grievance process it's just a matter of how user friendly it is. And that is usually directly proportional to how much free time and money you have. Of course that’s just how I see it from over this side of the lake.

quote: But your government has a bunch of control freaks at the helm. They want to control what you do, how you do it, where you do it and how often you do it. If that's not the pot calling the kettle black... We all have our problems...and I have my mine but come on...Canada is...well....Canada. One day we're gonna run out of trees and then we're gonna have to annex them...so lets be friends heh heh....

(long post...I've been out of the net) I myself tend to lean towards feeling that I live in a state rather then a nation (however I volunteered to serve my nation). I feel like people haven't the access or political influence the way they should. I think the real power rests with special interest groups, corporate sponsorship, and soft money etc. Some people see it too and are trying to change it....including some Ex POW U.S. Senators... I think everyone in America should be forced to do something to help when young...just to get them out of their comfort zone and meet their neighbors face to face and do something worth while for the nation. If a person were interested in politics they could then join the military...male or female...there are places for everyone. Who knows. What I do know with certainty is this. Being in politics is a full time job. But to do it well (like anything) requires knowledge of the topic at hand and a desire to do it right. Politics to me is understanding complex international situations joined with understanding different cultures. Domestic polices in an economic sense and philosophy in general. Someone with a great deal of common sense and no book smarts is going to get reamed and do their constituents a severe injustice. Oh yeah and you have to care...about people. I throw that in as an after thought because that's what it seems to be these days. Vision doesn't require common sense until plans are laid and courses of action are developed to realize this vision. And if theirs one thing we do have in great abundance it's bureaucrats. Let them figure out the details. Many of historyÔÇÖs greatest contributors had zero common sense but without them we still might be living in huts....

heh heh...Gray fox when will you chill with the stick figure morality

Heh heh...fun stuff... I don't think it should be voluntary....but I don't think everyone needs, or is able, to clear lanes either. So you offer all kinds of different ways to give service.

I've always thought that America needed something (besides TV) to bring it's people together in a meaningful way. I feel that serving in the Army has allowed me to meet people and hear stories that I might not have otherwise. I think getting people together in way that makes them unhappy or in the same boat can have a unifying effect. While forcing all (regardless of wealth) to give something back to the country. I wonder if anyone else has thoughts on this...

Heh, you got to love this stuff....freedom of speech+ issues posted on CNN Money.... I wouldn't worry...the gaming industry is an approx 8 billion industry....legal response is falling back to resupply (bank account) sucker in the opposition an slaughter em' Custer style... At least there is an appeal process....you just got to have the cash or the "moral" high ground. This has both.... We have to entertain idea's no matter how silly eh? Due process and fair play meets stupid and stupid wins the first round.... Laugh or cry....I'll laugh.

LAST POST Any one that thinks we live in a pure capitalism is wrong. I don't have to cite the examples because they are everywhere. Anyone that thinks that only one philosophy is correct is also probably wrong. Philosophies are as varied as people and we pick and choose as we go. Anyone who thinks this thread should stay on topic is in trouble because this issue is so complex entire careers are bent on trying to understand them. Issues are related. Anyone who thinks they have the one correct answer is arrogant and will probably be ignored in the end. Recommend you try understanding other peoples position and how it can strengthen or change your own. Everything changes...everything....and so should your opinion....there is wisdom in this and I hope you can see it.

aramike, there is documentation supporting the notion, that humans like many other species, try to avoid violence within the species..... quote: You mean, humans are allergic to hurting one another? You know, Jaguar and $ilk are right. You are living in your own world and you're obviously totally sheltered from what the REAL world is like. Recommend you read "On Killing" by Lt. Col . Dave Grossman. It is extremely interesting.

Thank you sir! I will be prepared.

quote: make no mistake about it...this is a war. Well if war is an extension of politics then what is anyone trying to accomplish...in the end? Seems more a give and take of pain to me. No real goals. Nothing that can be achieved with this war. quote: It is now the duty and responsibility of the Israeli Military and Government, to neutralize the threat to Israel. And if that means killing every single person of Palestinian blood, so be it.That's their JOB....To neutralize threats to the Israeli people.And if you, as a political entity show that you are going to use your citizenry as weapon delivery platforms. so be it.they must be neutralized........pretty simple actually.....at least from a military point of view Ok you lose me here. You are trying to tell me that because some groups that have ties to the Palestinian "government" use suicide bombers....now any Palestinian is a free target. Ok so you are trying to rationalize genocide...in my opinion. Very strange times indeed....I wonder if any Israelis would agree with this kind of final solution? Of all people in this world I hope they would never try to rationalize this....I don't think they could. No one can. quote: As for the Palestinians, if they continue to let the Hard-liners call the shot's and put them on the firing line. Let them go...let them Vanish from the face of the Earth,because the gene pool could certainly do with out their nonsense. If they want to go be with Allah through the great Jihad,Then by all means let's speed them on their way. For them it's an internal problem. but also pretty simple, get some new, more moderate leadership, behave like civilized folks, or face annihilation. Why does everybody insist we coddle these FU%^in' people? Now your talking about gene pools....I would tread lightly myself... However, I have never indorsed the Palestinian "government". The "government" doesn't really seem anything more then a bunch of groups bent on killing. Could any leader work in this environment? These people are coddled because they are people caught in a truly catastrophic situation and suffer greatly. as are the israelis . As people who believe in good and are charged with leading a free world we realize that compassion is a corner stone of any philosophy that claims to be moral. I hope. quote: The Israelis have been much more tolerant than they needed to be.MUCH more tolerant than the U.S. would've been.( as evidenced by this past year ) Why does everybody think we should DO ANYTHING...It's not our business. Let the Israelis defend their country, and let the Palestinians learn the error of their ways or fade into history. But we have been tolerant. I walk through offices every day that have the entire region to the east of Israel labeled "Toast" on cute little pin up pictures. While you and others might think that toast land is just what this world needs...myself and others would disagree. Operation Anaconda was very precise as was the whole Afghanistan operation and I applaud the very focused limited effort as a sign that we can learn from the past. Jaguar: I am sorry that you experienced what you did on the bus that day. You seem to be taking it very personally. Well so do people who are on the other end of American made weapons. I am not trying to say who is right and who is wrong. I dont have all the facts and neither do you. I am prepared to say that a war on terror will never be over for us as a people until we realize that we are the newbs on this block and more goes into solving this problem then kill em all and let Allah sort em out. Basically I just feel disappointed with you or any person that could dehumanize anyone to the point of calling them an animal and recommend for extermination. To me it shows how far we still have to go and how little we have learned from the sacrifice of the many before.....and (just from having to write this) how many are to come. [ 04-16-2002, 23:13: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

Did anyone ever see TRON? Captured my imagination when I was a rug rat....

I am also interested in joining the struggle. I like to think that I have a lot to offer but not much experiance to speak of. However if you can look past this shortcoming I am confident you will pleased with the end result. Bottom line is I can shoot and salute. Would like a posting with Balor fleet to assist in logistical operations but understand that needs of the Insurgency take priority.

I am intrigued by a notion of human nature out side the box of the basics. Eat, sleep, procreate etc. As far as I can determine the need to be safe is key above many others. Domination tends to lead to feelings of control and safety. But since we can imagine a soul (a deeper expression of self)....do we have to struggle for spiritual dominance as well? In order to be immortally safe. Does this lead to Jihad? When spiritual righteousness clashes with quantifiable economic inequities? Clumsy oversimplification of a human. You bet. There is no higher authority source than god eh? Well I'll see you girls and boys in college I'm out of my depth here.

Well business as usual hasn't gotten us too far....since I can't endorse genocide (although speed and permanency are key motivating factors to the lazy) perhaps we might consider looking to more unorthodox solutions.....uh with the proper amount of morality injected of course.... Maybe we could just embargo both sides and make them sell the guns and farm together....poor hungry people tend to focus at the task at hand....then we could subsidize with farming equipment and do gooder hippie types that are still disenfranchised with the government could flock to the cause....to keep the militarist faction of the country happy we could take all confiscated gear and give it to the NRA....ever seen a tank hunt a duck? And the money makers would be happy either way cause the money is a' movin.... No but seriously looking for idea's that don't lead to a bunch of filled body bags is about the best way to use a forum like this....well that’s just me. LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS (fighting to think hard)!!! (Paul Atradies___Duke House Atradies) sp?

Stormshadow....respect your tour....and your thoughts....some of them. Recommend rent copy of A Few Good Men, fast forward to the end and watch the last part of the hearings.....you seem to have a bit in common with our misunderstood hero/villian COL Jesop..... Then again....maybe I can't handle truth! [ 04-16-2002, 08:55: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

All I know is after I played more than an hour I wanted to hand command over to number 1...sit alone.....in the dark of my ready room .....pounding Roman ale until we needed to self destruct the ship to save Spock.....er....(pour another shot)......shut that ridged, inflexible, know it all, do nothing, sorry excuse for a first officer, bridge sim, the heck up......actually after I played this game and was disappointed to the point of developing a new facial tick, I read about BCM and began a quest to get a copy of a "love it or hate type game...offering extremely open-ended game play to the point of alienating some people" or something like that.....I wanted to get back to womb...and to me that is a "star flight" type of game...but so much more......I have reached the promised land....(pour another shot).....oh I gotta run my first officer is about to relieve me, again....(phazer to maximum)...heh heh...... [ 04-16-2002, 07:49: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

I am a soldier with the US Army. I also know this is a complicated issue. I can only speak as to how I feel. To do otherwise would require me to get a PHD in too many subjects. I personally would volunteer for any duty that would separate these two groups of people from committing any more violent acts upon each other. Even if the UN did deploy forces I am not aware of any procedure to get an assignment like this via Army channels. Keep in mind I speak only for myself. Because of the many other operations worldwide many have little desire to get involved in any more conflicts. I change my mind.... I’ll play PHD for a sec.... In my opinion, playing the blame game does nothing to resolve the situation. I feel that if a UN peacekeeping force were inserted after a period of cease-fire.... Any side that chose to violate it would be the clear enemy of peace. Any way you look at this situation there is the potential for escalation. This escalation can lead to large wars that could potential lead to other problems world wide. (Not to mention the danger to regional stability through inaction). I feel only a third party (with a worldwide endorsement) has any real shot of giving peace a chance. And if they wanted trained volunteers, I would go in a minute…. Not as a US soldier but as a peacekeeper. SGT Crusan, Lowen C. HHB 1-30th FA [ 04-16-2002, 02:01: Message edited by: Lotharr ]