Gallion Posted August 25, 2000 Report Posted August 25, 2000 This is right up aramike01's alley Local Inside Reverse Dead LivingTrivial Pursuit time: Which one(s) are used in the movie? Which one (if any) is considered the most important?Good movie. I suggest that one has an empty bladder before movie begins and to keep liquid comsumption during saga to a minimum if possible - duration is longer and average.TTFN
Guest aramike01 Posted August 25, 2000 Report Posted August 25, 2000 A spy movie? I should really turn on the TV once in awhile to see what movies are out there!Most Important Spy - Abient Congrescient (I'll leave that to you guys to figure out) OK, now I'm started, so duck! In reality, espionage is a tad different than it's usually glamourized. Much more complex. A modern spy rarely even leaves his office - rather, spends hours just staring at sat. recon and other intricate sensory readouts. Now, that surely hasn't precluded the need for field officers, either. But in the modern world (post Cold War), field personnel do it quite differently. During the arms race, a field officer would generally assume the identity of a citizen in his/her target country. While this is still done (not very common), a field officer tends to use the power of money to get actual citizens of their target country to do the dirty work. In this era of the EU, NATO, UN, etc., a nation's sovereignty is held in such high regard, especially if it's democratic. Back in the Cold War era, it was much more acceptable and expected to have your guys on their soil, so to speak. Now, that risk is somewhat alleviated with new tech. Just pay a contact to place a certain item in a certain spot, and voila!Oh yeah, and those movie type spies still exist. No comment on that. ------------------ Cmdr. Michael Kristophers Spectre Fleet Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation ICV-Intrepid "You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!"[This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 08-25-2000).]
Gallion Posted August 26, 2000 Author Report Posted August 26, 2000 Movie type spies? I am talking about that ancient manuscript, The Art of War by Sun Tzu and the new movie released yesterday.Then ye goes an pulls some verbage that is not in my Funk and Wagnell So I keep this simple, they're 5 types of spy identified in Sun Tzu's The Art of War. How many of the 5 were used in the movie, The Art of War and of the 5 identified by Sun Tzu, which is the most important?For those academy types, please use the KISS method.TTFN------------------ Commander Gallion GCV Graf Spee *1st Squadron, *Corsair Wing Stationed, *Starbase Cerberus "Run Silent, Run Deep" ICQ# 29486270, EST (GMT-5) =Wraith Fleet= Second in Command, Wraith Fleet Bushi of the Dragon Council
Guest aramike01 Posted August 26, 2000 Report Posted August 26, 2000 Oh, jeez - thought you were in reference to the newly released movie. And jeez, I haven't read The Art of War in years!Working from memory and ancient Chinese logic, lemme see if I can give this one a shot...IIRC, which I probably don't, Sun Tzu identified the reverse, or converted spies as required the most liberal of treatments. A converted spy is one of the enemies who is discovered, regarded and treated extremely highly, and used in direct contact with his former covenant, ie, his current enemy. Also, a reverse spy may be converted unknowingly, meaning, you may discover his intentions and feed him false information.A local spy is pretty much what I've outlined in my previous post - bringing locals into your employ.Inside - Almost the same as local, except that enemy officials are used.Dead - The most interesting, and (I'm hesistant to say) advanced, of ancient techniques, and certainly one employed throughout the Cold War era. It's almost the same as a converted spy, except that it's converted for "benefit" of the enemy by design of its allegience. In other words, you would use a "dead" spy to willingly feed false information to the enemy.Living - More or less couriers. They either (a)retrieve information from the aforementioned 4 types, or; (b)infiltration and direct relation of information pertaining to the enemy's holdings. I was working from memory here...am I missing anything, Gallion?Anyway, I haven't seen the movie, and from what I've heard about it, I'm not sure that I will. So I really can't comment upon what type of spies are used within.However, as to importance, I suppose the most all-encompassing spy would be the Living spy. But really, all techniques of espionage are quite effective in their own way, so importance is quite hard to judge. Yet, if I were forced to choose, I would have to say that the Living spy is the most important.------------------ Cmdr. Michael Kristophers Spectre Fleet Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation ICV-Intrepid "You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!"[This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 08-26-2000).]
Guest Posted August 26, 2000 Report Posted August 26, 2000 The movie sucked. The book is better. 'Nuff said.------------------ "Evil is forever."Cmdr. Kron Spectre Fleet ICV Darkness
Supreme Cmdr Posted August 26, 2000 Report Posted August 26, 2000 Saw it last night, I give is a 4/5. Any Snipes fan will like it. Its got a bit of everything and very subtle to boot. Snipes is not some superhero type etc, and his character is totally believable. In fact, it reminded me a lot of Jack Ryan.As for the spy trivia, Gallion, I'd say Reverse and that Inside is the most important.DarkHorizon, as far as I can tell, the The Art of War, the movie, has nothing to do with The Art Of War, the Chinese themed book. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Or was there a book actually based on this Snipes movie? (probably not). The movie was not trying, in any shape or form, to depict the book. It simply used one of the Art Of War themes to demonstrate what was going on inside the UN. Anyway, if you felt that the movie sucked, you must have fallen asleep through it, so, you probably didn't get much out of it.One thing that surprised me is that this movie didn't get the massive advertising that most Snipes movies get. I only saw the trailer a few times on TV. Then again, maybe I don't watch TV a lot, even though I my dedicate comms server has a Matrox G400 in it and I usually flip channels when CNN gets too boring, or if its a West Wing or JAG night.Speaking of which, did anyone catch the trailers for Get Carter (the new Stallone thriller) and Highlander: End Game, featuring Adrian Paul, Bruce Payne!!, and Chris Lambert. Man, that looks totally kick-ass. And I think I saw Chow Yun Phat in it, but I wasn't sure if it was him or not. Bruce Payne looked totaly wicked and its great to see Adrian Paul is getting big screen jobs again. I just saw him in a so-so video called The Premonition.
Guest Posted August 26, 2000 Report Posted August 26, 2000 No, I saw the whole movie SC. And I meant the chinese book not the movie novelization. At least the book is more interesting. Entrapment and The Saint were much better spy action movies than this. Yup, I really would like to see Endgame too.------------------ "Evil is forever."Cmdr. Kron Spectre Fleet ICV Darkness
Guest aramike01 Posted August 26, 2000 Report Posted August 26, 2000 quote:I'd say Reverse and that Inside is the most important. I'd thought about both of those, but then decided that those two are based upon the use of the enemy's people, rather than your own trusted people. I think they're the most important to keep tabs on. Anyway, I'll try to catch the movie next weekend. I have a soft spot for spy movies! ------------------ Cmdr. Michael Kristophers Spectre Fleet Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation ICV-Intrepid "You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!"
Supreme Cmdr Posted August 26, 2000 Report Posted August 26, 2000 I liked Entrapment and The Saint too! But one of my all time favorites, is Ronin.
Guest aramike01 Posted August 27, 2000 Report Posted August 27, 2000 Ronin was outstanding! Gotta love any movie that Gangster Rob is in.Speaking of which, (and not about spy fliks), anyone ever see Heat? The one with Deniro, Pachino, and Val Kilmer?------------------ Cmdr. Michael Kristophers Spectre Fleet Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation ICV-Intrepid "You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!"
Gallion Posted August 27, 2000 Author Report Posted August 27, 2000 The Sait and Entrapment were both good flicks. I was let down with how The Saint ended but enjoyed Entrapment.The Art of War does not break any new ground IMO in the spy/sction thriller movie but I enjoyed it. Made me think about more than just visuals; had the plot figured out at 1/2 point. If one likes Wesley Snipes then they should enjoy the flick. I do like the gender twist that was used for the protagonist aramike01 - I agree to a certain point with you. I await you seeing the movie before spilling my interpretation(s) and yes - Heat was a good flick tooTTFN[This message has been edited by Gallion (edited 08-26-2000).]
Guest Posted August 27, 2000 Report Posted August 27, 2000 Ronin was the best merc movie ever!------------------ "Evil is forever."Cmdr. Kron Spectre Fleet ICV Darkness
Pyro Penance Posted August 27, 2000 Report Posted August 27, 2000 I don't know, this movie didn't do anything for me. It's not that I didn't like it, it's just that I've seen it all before. So I'm gonna give it a 2 out of 4. Which to me is moderate. Ya know, big genre fans will get a kick out of it but probably not many others.
Supreme Cmdr Posted August 27, 2000 Report Posted August 27, 2000 Yep, I saw HEAT a bunch of times before I finally went out and bought the laser disk....then, a few months back, I got the DVD. Go figure.Right now, am waiting to grab the DVD of Pitch Black. I hear its coming out in October sometime.
Akira Posted August 27, 2000 Report Posted August 27, 2000 Pitch Black and Ronin were excellent movies. However, DarkHorizon, Ronin wasn't a merc movie. It was a movie about modern day masterless Samurai that weren't really masterless at all. The Frenchman and American were really working for their respective govt.'s
Guest Posted August 30, 2000 Report Posted August 30, 2000 Just saw Art of War tonight... ugh. I'm a bit of a Snipes fan myself (loved Blade, I'll be there opening night for Blade II) but not even him and Michael "It's a bug-hunt" Bean could save this movie for me...Now a Pitch Black DVD I'm all about. Also I highly recommend that if you like the movie The Professional (aka Leon) then check out the new "International Version" that was just released on DVD. You'll be amazed that they where allowed to ever cut out the 24 additional minutes that they did for the American version. It makes the story much more cohesive and a bit darker and more disturbing. It's one of those "I'll never watch the old version again" type things.
Steve Schacher Posted August 30, 2000 Report Posted August 30, 2000 Great book -- didn't see the movie.The book was written 2,500 years ago. Some people say that it was actually a resume of a Chinese general who goes from kingdom to kingdom looking for a ruler who needs to defeat somebody. Others think that it was written by several people over the centuries. The book is a treatise on how to use an army effectively. The chapter on spies is the last one (IIRC).My copy is footnoted by other Chinese scholars who comment on the various interpretations of the passages based on different meanings of the symbols used in the text. In the 1980's, many corporate CEO's read the book. Very interesting reading.
Pyro Penance Posted August 30, 2000 Report Posted August 30, 2000 I love Pitch Black and FYI, it's coming out on October 24th. Got mine reserved.
Rippen Posted August 31, 2000 Report Posted August 31, 2000 Ah, the joys of knowing people who know people. I've already got my copy of Pitch Black! This movie rocks the casbah. Albeit it's only on VHS, so I have to wait for the DVD like the rest of you fine folks.But for now NYAH NYAH NYAH!!
Guest aramike01 Posted August 31, 2000 Report Posted August 31, 2000 Am I the only one here who thinks that VHS is the end-all be-all of home theatrics? Must be...I also must be the only one who hasn't seen or heard of Pitch Black. Told you I need to turn on the TV a bit more. Well, now I must go explain to the wife why we need a DVD player and why our trusty VCR is antiquated. Heh, maybe if I score here, she'll let me upgrade my phonograph collection to CDs. And don't even ask me about the "Battle of the Beta". [This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 08-31-2000).]
Steve Schacher Posted August 31, 2000 Report Posted August 31, 2000 quote:Heh, maybe if I score here, she'll let me upgrade my phonograph collection to CDs. And just when you finished upgrading from 8-tracks, too...
Eclipse Posted September 5, 2000 Report Posted September 5, 2000 LOL @ Steve ------------------ Cmdr. Antilles Spectre Fleet Spectre Starstation ICV- Eclipse Chief Security Officer Learning is not compulsory... Neither is survival.
Guest aramike01 Posted September 5, 2000 Report Posted September 5, 2000 Hehe, don't get me started on the 8-track war! Btw, welcome back, Eclipse!------------------ Vice Admiral Michael Kristophers ICV-Intrepid Fleet Leader Spectre Fleet
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