9/11 Hearings

[Kalshion]

in other words. The committee is above the law =

NO ONE should be above the law

[Wolferz]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kalshion:

in other words. The committee is above the law =

NO ONE should be above the law

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I was referring to the interviewees, not the interviewers on the panel.

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

The Honorable *cough* *choke* Mr Bush and his cabinet have been very adept at delaying their apearance before the committee.

I can only ask, why?

I can only assume, to buy enough time to doctor everything up to give the appearance of innocence.

You are absolutely correct that no one should be above the law but, our lawmakers think they are.

"The law grinds the poor and the rich control the law"

I read an interesting story in the NY Times this morning about a book written by an author named Lincoln Steffens, circa 1900, The book was about government corruption in cities where businessmen were elected to high office.

Prior to the printing of this book, most Americans wanted to blame corruption on criminals and poor people the story said, but Mr Steffens wanted to find out the truth and took a tour of different cities around the country to see for himself.

According to the article Mr Steffens found that most of the corruption, if not all of it, was due to these businessmen holding office and having a narrow point of view that did nothing for their constituents, but did increase their business profits.

See a parrallel here?

The Whitehouse has all the underpinnings of a house of mirrors. it has been occupied by one business man after another,except maybe Reagan, for quite some time now.

Kind of hard for the committee to find the dirt on the furniture without mashing their noses on a bunch of mirrors. Sad part is, most of the members on the panel are businessmen.

You do the math.

[Steve Schacher]

RE: Condi Rice Testimony

SNL got in a few good jokes about it last night. One was "Former Sen. Bob Kerrey mistakenly referred to Dr. Rice as Dr. Clarke several times. But most embarrasing was when he referred to her as 'Omarosa'." The other funny one was "The White House release the August 20, 2001, Presidential Daily Briefing entitled 'Bin Laden Determined to Attack Within United States'. Also released was the August 26 briefing entitled 'No, Really, Laden Determined to Attack Within United States', and the September 1 briefing entitled 'How Many Times Do I Have to Tell You, Laden Determined to Attack Within United States'."

The key phrase from the report was about plans for hijacks. If you were to ask anyone what that meant prior to 9/11/01, you would have gotten almost 100% conformity that hijacking meant hostages, just like the TWA flight that was taken to Beirut for a 17 days in 1985. Nobody would have first thought of flying a jet into a building.

RE: Oil & Alternative Fuels

The source of the increased gasoline prices is two-fold: 1) increased worldwide demand in emerging industrial countries like China (don't know whether it is for industry or strategic stockpile), and 2) "boutique" fuels in the USA, where each state/city has their own formulations for clean air regulations.

The 60-odd boutique gasoline formulations across the country create a patchwork of formulations which makes it impossible for surplus markets to transfer their gasoline to shortage markets. Refineries have to plan their production so that once a batch of gasoline is made to one blend specification, they start making the next blend for the next region, and so on and on.

What really has to happen is the creation of a national standard gasoline formulation so that surplus fuels can be transferred anywhere where shortages are beginning. Only then will the forces of supply and demand work to stabilize the gas prices nationwide.

[Takvah]

This administration won't get away with drilling in the Gulf of Mexico. Even with the halfwit's brother being the Governor (and I really don't mind Jeb he's the smarter Bush) it would be political suicide in this state to drill there. Of course Jaguar if you include EVERY available source of oil in the territorial US you might get a year or two out of the ground... so? THE GLOBAL SUPPLY HAS LESS THAN 50 YEARS and that is an optimistic average that isn't taking into account other nations becoming more industrialized. Oh and by the way Bush has proven he can't find oil... he's bankrupted several oil companies he has run.

As for the 9/11 Commission the funniest thing is that Cheney and Bush are going into the hearing together. What the hell is that? The great WAR TIME PRESIDENT needs Uncle Dick to go in with him and hold his hand before the Commission? Man, I can't believe that anybody can have any respect for this guy when it is quite obvious his subordinates don't. Hell Cheney was in a secure bunker long before Bush was on 9/11... that speaks volumes. I would just like to hear how people can justify THEIR President having to go into this thing with Cheney... another bad idea that is going to blow up in their faces.. just like Iraq and this latest PDB release. Where's G.W. anyway? Oh yeah he's on "vacation".

*Snickers*

Bush and Cheney testify

[Guest]

50 years? OMG, that is hilarious.... I have NO idea where you get your information, but it is a bit dated.

We have close to 200 years worth just in the US alone, and if you include all the other oil producing nations, we have enough to last the millenium, and possibly longer.

Please, get up to date, my job is not to teach, so you will have to find the info yourself.

There is PLENTY of oil, and always has been, all the chicken littles do make me laugh though...

[Steve Schacher]

quote:

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This administration won't get away with drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.

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There is plenty of drilling going on in the Gulf of Mexico. It's just that it's off the coasts of Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi. Florida banned drilling off of its coast, but that ban extends only so far.

[Charles Lindsey]

Gee thanks. Discount Alabama out of hand. We have the Bay of Mobile. Though it seems we did get cheated agaes ago. What does Florida need with the panhadle anyway?

Alabama successfully sued "big oil" for tax evasion from that very extraction.

[LostInSpace]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

50 years? OMG, that is hilarious.... I have NO idea where you get your information, but it is a bit dated.

We have close to 200 years worth just in the US alone, and if you include all the other oil producing nations, we have enough to last the millenium, and possibly longer.

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Well there's something to look foward to. Pumping all that locked up carbon and other polutants back into the atmosphere for 200 years or more. Well we might as well all take a little visit to venus to get use to that sort of enviornment. Luckily, I have great hope that we will move beyond reliance on fossil fuel. Until then, I'll just keep merrily puffing away on my cigarettes blowing the smoke in all you oil based vehicle owner faces. I mean why not, you do it to me with your cars!

[Steve Schacher]

quote:

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Well there's something to look foward to. Pumping all that locked up carbon and other polutants back into the atmosphere for 200 years or more.

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Let's not forget about all the other petroleum products that we depend on besides gasoline. There are the plastics that we use; we used to have vinyl records, but now we have CDs and DVDs; the asphalt that we drive on is a by-product from oil; the lube oils that keep the industrial machinery running (like assembly lines, printing presses, etc) comes from crude; the list goes on and on.

Do we stop all oil consumption or just the automobiles?

[LostInSpace]

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Schacher:

Do we stop all oil consumption or just the automobiles?

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There's no need to stop the automobiles just change the fuel they use. That would stop the majority of pollution right there. It would be nice to be able to do a tally on how many automobiles there are world wide compared to factories and such and how much polutants those vehicles kick out each year total compared to other sources. Also must take into account the population growth and more cars because of it. All I know is that it pisses me off that these same people with their cars trying to tell me I can't smoke because it polluts the air. What a laugh.

[Guest $iLk]

Would be nice if some of these enviro-people put their own money out of pocket to finance research into alternative fuels. Considering asking government to do EVERYTHING is what drives up taxes and dicks up the economy...

[Kevin Trotter]

To what end? They would be discounted as there is no money in it for Oil companies. Oil is a nonrenewable fuel source. Whether it is 50 or 200 years, the clock is ticking. Only a fool would continue sucking on that tit witout looking for a replacement. But by all means, keep driving Hummers and Expeditions, just make sure you got a horse in the barn to pull it later.

As to the hearings, both sides are shameless in thier deception of the gullible American public.The only laugh I got was when Rice talked about only being in ofice 233 days. They still had time to reverse nearly every environmental protection, line the oil companies pockets with money, and promptly "forget" about thier policy of compassionate conservatism.

I also got a kick out of the memo's not giving them the who, where, why and how on the attacks. As Margeret O'Dowd said "Paging Nancy Drew.." They were certainly able to take action in Iraq with minimal intelligence. I mean the Germans gave them one of the hijackers name and phone number! What else did they need his Email address?

bloodtype, coffee preferences at Starbucks? This administration's ability to deny thier own mistakes is only surpassed by thier ability to commit them. ( Hold my hand Unca Dick, I'ma scared!)

[Kevin Trotter]

Dont want to leave out the lily livered Democrats who are trying to milk this for all it is worth. Their time would be better spent growing some gonads and focusing on the many f**k ups we know Bush is responsible for. This is not one of them.

[Kalshion]

Ouch, easy on the language Race

And also, you're wrong in a lot of you're posts

its not easy to overturn reverse any rules and such that are put in office

Apperently you never took government, or you would know that... apperently its another thing you lack, a sense of knowing what the predency and what other position's are capible of

You can't just got into office and change every law. Thats just not possible, there are rules even YOU have to abide by and if you don't then there will be an 'accident' and you'll cease to exist

To be honest, Bush has done a better job in office that that Traitor Clinton and that other Bush before him.

So quite frankly, when voting comes. I'm voting for Bush

[Kevin Trotter]

Gee there's a suprise. The things I'm referring to were ordered by executive action of the president. Which can be overturnrd by executive action. They include land designated by Clinton as wildlife preserves, and federally protected areas. Bush also went to work changing the standards for how the Gov deals with violations of the the Clean Air Act.

I MAJORED in government and Poly SCI my first two years in college (that would be my Undergraduate degree, not my Master or the Doctorate I'll soon be pursuing). Presidents can in a limited way use the power of the executive branch by issuing an executive order, for example he could concievably appoint a federal judge he knows cant get confirmed by the Senate, when they are not in session. Of course the appointee can only serve for a limited amount of time before he or she would have to be confirmed but the Pres. does have that authority. While you are at it, look up the word traitor as well. Clinton made some collosal mistakes and acted without personal honor, but his actions fall short of being a traitor. I know that it is how most of you justify vicious attacks on him. Even lying ass Nixon wasnt a traitor. You should be careful how you throw that word around young'un.

[Kalshion]

Bush already tried getting some conservatives, but the democrats got to them, I'm guessing you forgot that... how convenient

I know what traitor is Race Bannon IV, I'm not stupid I am in the military right now. And Clinton IS and ALWAYS will be a traitor, he sold one of our most highly guarded secrets to a country that is now threatening nuclear war on Japan. THAT is why is he a traitor, he knew that was going to happen.

The democrated office will fully allow another democrated president to do what they wish

However, when a republican president is in office the democrats try EVERYTHING in there power to make sure that president isn't able to do anything. And there's proof of that in the history books (like the one I read at school)

THAT is why I really hate the democratic party

I can stand the republican party, but like I said in the past I take no sides in this turkey shoot of a war

I'd go on, but then I would turn this thread into another Kerry - Treason thread, which the SC's would get on my butt about

Also, please refrain from using foul language ok, I already got busted for using it. So all I'm doing is saving you a trip to the Commander's office

[Kevin Trotter]

Hate blinds people. You are blind to some things, that much is clear. You also appear to be quite young, which while isn't a crime, does explain some of your positions. If the Republicans went after Clinton with so much zeal over a hummer in the Oval office, explain thier lack of action on a Treasonable offence ?

You are certainly within your rights to have certain opinions, regardless of how wrong or misguided they may be. You do however have my respect for putting your convictions on the line by serving your country. That is more than I can say about a lot conservo's who bandy about for war without ever risking their or thier sons and daughters necks.

Lastly what facts and what History books are you referring to? From 1980 till today we have had three Republican presidents who have pretty much done as they pleased (well maybe not George Sr. so much)They have appointed alarge number of Fedral judges and filled the Supreme court with conservative judges. Please illustrate where thye have been prevented from governing?

[Guest $iLk]

The state of politics in America is a joke at the moment... we need change and limitations on Federal Power.

The tax code needs to be totally revamped, social security scrapped and replaced - the remainder of what's in it should be used for those people left - and the rest of the pork spending by politicians should be outlawed. Citizens against Government Waste can oversee a lot of this, and the fairtax act can be enacted. Both Republicans and Democrats should be thrown out of office and replaced with libertarians and some independants. Lawyers should be removed from all public positions, and the judicial system needs to be totally overhauled. I'm starting to sound like Jag...

Seriously enough - a lot of that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Otherwise - anyone catch the blurb about the Gorelick lady on the commission who is currently being asked to resign and pointed to as "the smoking gun" in the whole 9/11 thing?

[Wolferz]

Yeah, $ilk, I mostly agree,

I saw a news article about Ms Gorelick's supporting role in this tragedy and then all of a sudden she's on the panel charged with investigating it.

I just shook my head and thought to myself," Par for the course"

The Denizens of the Black hole called DC should be instructed to yell "FORE" the next time they want to drive a Golf ball at our heads.

I agree that the two party system is a miserable failure and we should impeach the lot of them.

Get rid of the Electoral College crapolla too. Candidates should campaign with their own money and win by majority vote only.

The States should pay Senate and Congressional Salaries. Betcha they'd get a massive pay and benefit cut real quick.

Maybe go back to State Militia for all military provisions too . That would certainly stop a sitting President from starting an unfounded war.

I'm curious though, $ilk....Why would you want to see the Social Security System scrapped?

It is in serious need of an overhaul, but scrapping it would be catastrophic.

I was just reading that most people today will need to put 70 to 80% of their wages into an IRA or other retirement plan in order to live a comfortable retirement...

Could any of us live on 20 to 30% of our wages in this economy while we are salting the rest away for old age?

I was instantly motivated to cry out "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot...Over!" when I read that.

Then there are those of us who are disabled or will become disabled before retirement age..

Do we just cut the elderly and disabled off at the knees and say thanks for paying/ playing, good luck?

I hope you don't mind tripping over homeless, starving elderly and invalids when you walk down the street. Or worse, getting whacked in the head by one, right before he/she steals your wallet. In essence you would be trading your tax money for more Police and jails in lieu of SSA payments.

Ok, enough is enough, I'm going to start ignoring comments that have no bearing in reality, including my own.

PS... Race, Watch your Blood Pressure man. You don't want to go through the Social Security Disability application process.....It sucks Mammoth Moose Member.... Believe me!..

[Kevin Trotter]

The BP's fine Wolfie, you might want to direct that message to Kalshion though. I agree with both of you on a lot of points, but SSA is needed, just not in its present form. Unfortunately I have working knowledge of the application process. Many of my former clients had to apply and I once told one of them, that if they had both legs and arms cutoff they would still be denied the first time through!

I also think we need to remove money as a determining factor in political races. Each candidate should get the same amount to run thier campaign on or advertising spots should be free like PSA's. I really think that would enhance the political process in this country.

[Guest $iLk]

quote:

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Get rid of the Electoral College crapolla too. Candidates should campaign with their own money and win by majority vote only.

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I don't agree with this based on our system as a Republic and not a Democracy. It would be foolhardy to let majority rule - considering that would lead to a 1 party dominance fairly quickly.

i.e. if 3 guys vote to take money from 2 guys - what can the two guys do except bend over and take it?

And the Social Security system in it's present form is going to be bankrupt in 20 years or less. I can pretty much believe nobody who is 40 years old paying in now is going to collect when they retire or if they do retirement age will be 75 or older.

Social Security should be scrapped in favor of employer sponsored retirement funds through agencies or something. Like fidelity. With the income tax being scrapped in favor of consumption taxes - that would lead to a healthier retirement package I would think.

[Kalshion]

Blood pressure message should be pointed at me, I'm the one with high blood pressure right now = (and I'm still young)

Speaking of which, race just because I'm young doesn't mean I have no knowledge of politics.

I spent 2 months writing an essay are mister Clinton, the teacher said to right about his successes... WHAT SUCCESSES?! I found none what-so-ever and the ones I did find where falsified by CNN and ABC. Sorry but I don't want to get my information from lieing freaks, (and to be honest,I consider CNN and ABC to be traitors to america

But enough of that, lets get back to the 9/11 hearing.

Quite frankly I find it to interesting that they denied stuff about 9/11 and said that bush could've provented it. To be honest, it wasn't bush who could've provented it....

It was Clinton, if he had accepted the deal to hand over Bin Ladin then this might not have happened, but no, and thanks to him 9/11 occured. Sorry but I blame Clinton for the lose of 2 of my friends and fellow american's, thats why I'm going into the military, to fight for my country and get rid of these terrorist freaks

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Race Bannon IV:

The BP's fine Wolfie, you might want to direct that message to Kalshion though. I agree with both of you on a lot of points, but SSA is needed, just not in its present form. Unfortunately I have working knowledge of the application process. Many of my former clients had to apply and I once told one of them, that if they had both legs and arms cutoff they would still be denied the first time through!

I also think we need to remove money as a determining factor in political races. Each candidate should get the same amount to run thier campaign on or advertising spots should be free like PSA's. I really think that would enhance the political process in this country.

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SSI should go away, it is unconstitutional, it should naver have been allowed in the first place, just as welfare should never have been allowed. That is neither here nor there though.

And the Campaign spots free of charge I disagree with TOTALLY, we may own the airwaves, but private entities own the equipment that transit through those airwaves. You wanna make it so each candidate has only so much money, that's fine, but do not make private enterprise pay for something that it shouldn't have to.

Private industry has enough beaurocratic nonsense to deal with as it is.

[Wolferz]

Kal,

Watch that blood pressure close, my friend,

Believe me, you don't want to become disabled from a Ticker Temblor. etc etc ad nauseum....

I could tell you all about the horrific treatment I've recieved from Federal agencies since my health failed, and about all the red tape I have been forced to wade through to get back a piddly amount of the over $20,000.00 I have paid into this governmental scam of an insurance system since I began working. But this should be related/ debated in a thread all it's own. I'll fire that one up later, after I have had a chance to type up a good essay(read horror story) with my one good hand and eye. Hopefully, what is left of my brain that still lives will cooperate.

Race, Good to hear that you are in good health.

Do whatever is required to keep it that way, but I'm sorry to say,there is still a good chance that you will become disabled before you reach retirement age. Plan ahead now. Think about it..

What will you have to live on if, all of a sudden you suffer a stroke like I did, and it takes you one to two years to complete the SSI & SSID application process? Or if worse yet, a bunch of ignorant Senators decide to raid the SSA funds..... Again... for one or two of their pet projects that profit no one but themselves.

Look up Senator Young of Alaska and his two bridge to nowhere projects.

Can you say ...Pork Barrel? I knew you could.

"Git them britches off and squeal like a pig!"

C'mon Jag, string an arrow and start shootin!

[Wolferz]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

50 years? OMG, that is hilarious.... I have NO idea where you get your information, but it is a bit dated.

We have close to 200 years worth just in the US alone, and if you include all the other oil producing nations, we have enough to last the millenium, and possibly longer.

Please, get up to date, my job is not to teach, so you will have to find the info yourself.

There is PLENTY of oil, and always has been, all the chicken littles do make me laugh though...

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Peep Peep Peep

Does

this shed anymore light on the subject of oil reserves?

According to that article, we don't have enough fossil fuel left to worry about global warming.