Abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison

[Guest]

Thread closed as well, I am tired of emotional rhetoric and nonsense, If I want that I can go to Democrat underground.

Thread closed

[Supreme Cmdr]

I am going to re-open this thread - though Jaguar closed it. Until now, I have never had to overrule one of my mods, but an email I just received, caused me to come here and investigate this.

Read this.

[LostInSpace]

Berg's encounter with 'terrorist' revealed. Again in this day and age it's better to be safe than sorry. Was Berg in U.S. custody? Answers conflict

[street228]

Doesnt anyone ELSE find this whole situation concerning berg...just a little bit disconcerting?.

1).His death publicly incites rage upon americans, by first confirmed alqueda cell within Irag.

2). Alqueda, for the first time, ADMITS they were responsible for ANY action within Iraq, with this atrocious act immediately AFTER the pictures

are released which brought heat upon Rumsfeld.

3). These particular Alqueda cell, for the firs time, are all wearing hoods, to hide their identity.

4).A known terrorist used his laptop in the past?

5). His parents had just filed suit against Rumsfeld to get him out of U.S. custody

6). controversy as to wheather he was actually ever in U.S. custody, or just in the custody of the Iraqi police?

the WHOLE thing has a SMELL to it, in my opinion

[Charles Lindsey]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/11/...ain616842.shtml

This is getting stranger and stranger. Wanna hear a conspiracy theory? Thought it up all by myself I did.

He converted to Islam; joined Al Quaida; and martyred himself.

MAybe not but it is strange. He was offered a ride home a month ago according to the CBS story in my link. THEN he was detained. Then disappeared a couple of days after release. I don't know if they offered him another ride home or not after he was released.

[Steve Schacher]

quote:

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Doesnt anyone ELSE find this whole situation concerning berg...just a little bit disconcerting?

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There are other oddities:

1. His company, Prometheus Tower, is not registered in Pennsylvania.

2. His father was a signer of the International A.N.S.W.E.R March 20 Call to Action. ANSWER has since removed his name from their site.

3. Nick Berg did not enter Iraq through normal direct means. He entered via Jordan. He was also carrying radio and electronic equipment.

The situation is perfect for conspiracy theories. Was Berg there to help the Iraqis rebuild there radio infrastructure, or was he there to help the insurgents build a radio network? Was he trying to contact the insurgents on behalf of ANSWER? Why didn't he enter with the proper credentials instead of entering via Jordan and traveling on his own? Why didn't he take the American offer to fly away from Baghdad?

[LostInSpace]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cmdr Chavik:

He converted to Islam; joined Al Quaida; and martyred himself.

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Jeepers creepers! You know I was thinking the same thing but aired on the side of caution from making any comments about it publicly. But then thought how can that be when all the reports I've seen says that he was in favor of the war. Anyway it's amazing what ya find when you turn over a few rocks.

[Steve Schacher]

Berg's father is quoted as saying, "I am sure that he only saw the good in his captors until the last second of his life," Berg said. "They did not know what they were doing. They killed their best friend."

Why would his father say that Berg was a "best friend" of the terrorists?

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Schacher:

Berg's father is quoted as saying, "I am sure that he only saw the good in his captors until the last second of his life," Berg said. "They did not know what they were doing. They killed their best friend."

Why would his father say that Berg was a "best friend" of the terrorists?

---

I was wondering the same thing, actually.

His murder angers me, no matter how it was done.

These people are indeed animals, anyone that does NOT believe that these extremists are capable of killing a helpless person in cold blood, just think back to when they killed 3000 and knocked down 2 of our buildings, and tried to destroy 2 others.

They are trying to destroy us, and will do anything and everything to damage and weaken our resolve, and as soon as a weakness shows itself, they will go for another major attack.

If the terrorists sense weakness, they attack, just as they are now threatening Spain with still more terrorist attacks. The tactics worked with Spain, so they will just up the ante and attack some more.

The only way to stop these cowards is to confront them, and the only way to stop them is to kill them.

It has become and is becoming even more evident that this is indeed the case. It is is either us, or them.

[El Che]

Originally posted by Jaguar:

"If the terrorists sense weakness, they attack, just as they are now threatening Spain with still more terrorist attacks. The tactics worked with Spain, so they will just up the ante and attack some more."

I've been searching for news reports about recent terrorist threats against Spain, but am unable to locate any at all. I try to keep up on the news but with work and family it can sometimes be difficult. I figured that with the wise decision of the Socialist government in Spain to pull their troops out of a shameful and futile war for oil, that they would no longer be in as much danger as other nations bent on world domination. But perhaps I was wrong. If you could please point me in the right direction to the recent reports of terrorist threats against Spain (post-Iraq war involvement) I would be most grateful, Jaguar.

[Steve Schacher]

On the lighter side of the news:

Critics are complaining that the detainees at Abu Ghraib prison are not being afforded the rights and privileges of the Geneva Convention. We often think of the Geneva Convention as "name, rank, and serial number" only. However, Convention III Section II Art. 26 states in part: "The use of tobacco shall be permitted." So, people who live in New York City (or other locales that ban public smoking) are violating the Geneva Conventions.

[LostInSpace]

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Schacher:

Convention III Section II Art. 26

states in part: "The use of tobacco shall be permitted." So, people who live in New York City (or other locales that ban public smoking) are violating the Geneva Conventions.

---

Woot great news another argument to use against these nannies!!

The basic daily food rations shall be sufficient in quantity, quality and variety to keep prisoners of war in good health and to prevent loss of weight or the development of nutritional deficiencies. Account shall also be taken of the habitual diet of the prisoners.

..........

Sufficient drinking water shall be supplied to prisoners of war. The use of tobacco shall be permitted.

Shows that according to the powers that be smoking is not a detriment to good health.

[Wolferz]

I received this news blog in an E-mail from someone I don't even know and there was no link to this story.

I have searched the AP website to no avail.

The majority of their archived stories are available, if you want to pay for them. LOL

I have seen news reports about this jail:

The AP report:

quote:

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"We need more Sheriff's like this guy !! Maybe he should run for PRESIDENT

!!!!!

TOO HOT FOR ARIZONA CONVICTS ???

It's even hotter than usual in Phoenix, 116 degrees sets a new

record, the Associated Press reports:

About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent

encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip

down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up

on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees

inside the week before. Many were also swathed in wet, pink towel! s as

sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks.

"It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzo't, an inmate

who has lived in the tents for 1 1/2 years. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long

ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is

not one bit sympathetic.

He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates, "It's 120 degrees

in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they didn't commit

any crimes, so shut your damned mouths."

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Now, ordinarily I would not view this type of incarceration as a bad thing. I have lived in the field in every kind of tent that Uncle Sam has to offer but, on a sweltering summer day in the forests surrounding Ft Knox, you don't spend much time in a canvas tent. I can only imagine the torture induced in the heat of Arizona.

"If you can't do the time don't do the crime" is a familiar phrase in America.

In many cases it's a load of horse hockey. People in this country are warehoused,at the publics' expense, for very slight infractions of the law.

Prisons are supposed to be used to rehabilitate criminals.

Do they?

The answer to that question is a resounding NO!

Is it fitting punishment for not following the rules?

It's definitely punishment. Sometimes criminal punishment.

Case in point:Breaking Probation Could Kill You

Everyone is up in arms about Abu Ghraib.

It makes me laugh to see everyones' righteous indignation about it, when every day in the US prison system, there are far worse cases of criminal abuse happening and we turn a blind eye to it.

There are so many laws and regulations in this country now, if the Police knocked down your door today, and entered your home with a search warrant, they would find "something" to arrest you for. The criminal justice system,now, is no more than a money making scheme and many innocent citizens are incarcerated for any menial infraction of a myriad of laws, from local laws to federal laws.

Not every inmate is guilty of some heinous crime and many are railroaded into jail.

Why?

A: Prison Industries.

Prison Industries are a money maker for someone, using what equates to slave labor.

If their labor force begins to dwindle, they easily cure the problem by sending out the Gestapo for more bodies.

Does anyone, other than the criminal justice system and our Barristers, know what our laws are?

Good luck finding the answer to that one.

Welcome to PRISON PLANET boys and girls. Be sure to keep the nose Goblins out of your Proboscis.

That is if you can find all of them. I guarantee the law enforcement community can.

[street228]

quote:

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Everyone is up in arms about Abu Ghraib.

It makes me laugh to see everyones' righteous indignation about it, when every day in the US prison system, there are far worse cases of criminal abuse happening and we turn a blind eye to it.

There are so many laws and regulations in this country now, if the Police knocked down your door today, and entered your home with a search warrant, they would find "something" to arrest you for. The criminal justice system,now, is no more than a money making scheme and many innocent citizens are incarcerated for any menial infraction of a myriad of laws, from local laws to federal laws.

Not every inmate is guilty of some heinous crime and many are railroaded into jail.

Why?

A: Prison Industries.

Prison Industries are a money maker for someone, using what equates to slave labor.

If their labor force begins to dwindle, they easily cure the problem by sending out the Gestapo for more bodies.

Does anyone, other than the criminal justice system and our Barristers, know what our laws are?

---

Truer words, have never been spoken!!!!!!!!!

[Wolferz]

Let me throw another wrench in the Monkeyworks,

Jag, you'll get a kick outta this one and it might just wake up some other sleeping moles ...

EJECT EJECT EJECT

[Terran Marine]

Well, it looks like America may suffer another terrorist attack. They haven't raised the color-coded terror alert level for the nation yet.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/05/26/terror.threat/index.html

[street228]

I will believe it, when I see it. The white house admits, that this threat is continuous and has not changed, but just want to be safe; because, of all the big events coming up. They realize, their only chance to increase the Bush ratings, in the poles, is to instigate more TERROR,within the minds of Americans.(i.e. To give the Group Hysteria, a shot in the arm)

[Terran Marine]

I personally believe the war on Iraq was wrong and that we had no reason to go in there. Sure we captured Saddam and took over the country but rebuilding will be hard part. We shall see if the Iraqi's will be able to take control of their country by June 30th.

[Steve Schacher]

quote:

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The white house admits, that this threat is continuous and has not changed, but just want to be safe; because, of all the big events coming up.

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I've always thought that the 5-point threat system was mis-used. The problem was with initially setting the threat at level 3.

With level 3 as the default, you can only go to level 4 before declaring an all-out assault (level 5, I suppose). What Tom Ridge should have done was set us at level 2, with level 1 being peace. This way, they have two levels to move through (3 and 4) before declaring maximum threat. That way, they could have moved us to level 3 now if they wanted to heighten awareness, and still have level 4 available to warn us further.

As it is now, they only have one level to increase before going all the way to the top. The first two levels remain unused, and will remain so forever, unless they realign the system in the future.

[street228]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/07/13/redcross....r.ap/index.html

an update, as to the Abu Ghraib prison condition, and RED CROSS participation.

[shasla5]

Whats sad is that these cowardly b------- are treated better than many good American citizens. They get their excersise and prayer rugs, and all that other crap. If they are caught complaining, praying to allah, or if they so much as glare at an American guards, they should be punished. They are NOT POWS, they are the worst kind of animal on the face of the Earth. So yes, torture should most definatly be used on them. Not because most of them deserve it, but because doing so could quite likley save many American lives.

Speaking of Arabs, this whole racial profiling thing is really starting to annoy me. If you are Arab, you should be searched much more thouroghly. Is it biased and unfair? Oh yes, but thats just too bad. They're lucky we didn't we didn't round them all up and put them in concentration camps like they did to the Japanese in WWII (I don't agree with concentration camps, just closer watching so don't flame me and call me inhumane). Racial profiling is a neccessary inconvinience if another 9/11 is to be averted. I now await your flames...

(ripped from previous thread because I'm too lazy to write two different responses to the same topic.)

[street228]

quote:

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Whats sad is that these cowardly b------- are treated better than many good American citizens.

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I would tend to share your anger towards them.....IF, IN FACT, they ARE guilty of that which they have been arrested.!!

In the mean time, don't you think it would make just a little more sense, to treat them in a humane way, seeing that they are in a PRISON, with NO CHARGES, or ANY PROOF, what-so-ever, they have committed ANY crimes against you, or your country?

Turn it around, for one second: HOW would you want to be treated, if someone ACCUSED you of such a heiness crime, and you had no opportunity to defend yourself, or to PROVE you are innocent??

hummm........I would bet, your view would change 180 degrees,...INSTANTLY!!!

[shasla5]

I'm an American citizen, for one thing...

And they go overboard there. No prisoner should be treated so well as they are, especially not them. Chances are they have done something wrong against America anyway.