Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena back from Iraq

[LostInSpace]

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena has returned to Rome, hours after American troops in Iraq fired on the car she was in, wounding her and killing an Italian intelligence officer escorting the former hostage.

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U.S. troops "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," the statement said.

"When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block, which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."

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The road where the incident took place, near Baghdad's airport, was particularly dangerous, Robertson added.

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I don't blame the troops for their response. Not one bit.

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"But CNN's Alessio Vinci reported that Saturday's Il Manifesto newspaper had accused U.S. forces of "assassinating" Calipari."

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The newspaper mentioned above is a leftist paper and Giuliana Sgrena is a leftist reporter for that paper. Sure in the dead of night at some bagdad checkpoint the troops chose then and there to assasinate this Nicola Calipari.

[Marvin]

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Originally posted by LostInSpace:

I don't blame the troops for their response. Not one bit.

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And I don't blame the Italians. If I'd just bought my way out of one terrorist hell-hole and, on a dark and dangerous roadway, some unfamiliar group started shooting at my car and waving for me to stop ....

[Guest Remo Williams]

Sounds like a failure to communicate between the Italians and the military to me. To bad they didn't inform the powers that be in Iraq what they where doing and where they were doing it to avoid this sort of mistake.

[Guest]

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Originally posted by Marvin:

And I don't blame the Italians. If I'd just bought my way out of one terrorist hell-hole and, on a dark and dangerous roadway, some unfamiliar group started shooting at my car and waving for me to stop ....

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WTF?

Excuse me, you have US military standing in front of you, IN US UNIFORMS, with US VEHICLES, telling you to stop at a checkpoint, YOU STOP!!!

If you are stupid or moronic enough to keep driving toward them, expect to get killed, or at the very least wounded.

These Italians were fricking idiots, this guy was an intelligence agent? Give me a break..... More like moron agent....

[jamotto]

Shame this could have been prevented with better communication between those involved.

[Guest]

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Originally posted by jamotto:

Shame this could have been prevented with better communication between those involved.

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No, it couldn't have been prevented.

Everyone has to stop at the checkpoints, doesn't matter who they are, or where they are going.

Even if they had called ahead, they would have had to have stopped for the checkpoint.

They didn't, so they got shot up, no lack of communications at all, the Italians were IDIOTS....

[jamotto]

Except it was not a checkpoint according to Sgrena, However at the moment there are so many different versions of this story floating around who knows what happened that night.

[Guest]

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Originally posted by jamotto:

Except it was not a checkpoint according to Sgrena, However at the moment there are so many different versions of this story floating around who knows what happened that night.

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According to people that I have talked to, it was indeed a checkpoint, and the fact that she has been a hostage, it was dark, and she didn't have a clue where the checkpoints were, makes me a bit skeptical to say the least.

The driver is at fault for not stopping at the checkpoint. An ambush, give me a break, talk about paranoid...

[LostInSpace]

Hmmm, there's a few people involved in this we have not heard from such as the driver. I wouldn't believe a word Sgrena says since she, due to her politcal, anti-american and Iraq involvment view point, without any doubt is going to paint this as an American fault. Besides, it was dark she was probably tired and withdrawn and afraid because of her captivity and didn't know what the heck was going on around her before or even after this event.

[Guest Remo Williams]

If there had been better communication with our friends in this tragic accident I would like to think it could have been avoided. It was dark the US personnel had no way of knowing who was in the car that apparently was not stopping at the check point, so they did the right thing according to procedure for stopping a possible suicide bomber.

On the other hand the dark also hid the identity of what must of appeared as a group of armed men stopping cars which is a practice of the insurgents to take hostages. NO one was and idiot or a moron it was a frigging mistake sheesh, I donÔÇÖt see how name-calling is beneficial to making a point, but to each their own I suppose.

Like it or not communication could have avoided this incident. If they had at least some coordination our allies would have known that the military was operating check points in the area they were in so they would have stopped. Instead of trying to run through and insurgent check point, which IÔÇÖm sure is what was going through their minds in the dark and the heat of the moment.

[LostInSpace]

I agree with everyone's comments on this.

This operation should have been conducted with close commmunication with american officals and forces especially the way Iraq is now. Seems that everyone who was important to keep informed was kept out the loop and we all know the results of this. This Lone Ranger routine just won't cut it.

Well who didn't see this coming:

CNN: ROME, Italy (CNN) -- An Italian journalist shot by U.S. forces in Iraq shortly after being freed from captors disputes a U.S. account of the incident in which she was wounded and a security agent protecting her was killed.

[Marvin]

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

According to people that I have talked to....

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Typical. You have more "deep throats" than a ENT specialist.

[Guest]

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Originally posted by Marvin:

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

According to people that I have talked to....

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Typical. You have more "deep throats" than a ENT specialist.

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Pardon me?

I have friends that are in Iraq right now, and more then one of them has heard about this, one of them is based close to where this occurred.

Ever heard of E-mail Marvin? If you look around, there are PLENTY of sites that will put you in contact with soldiers on the ground there, that would be more then happy to correspond with you via E-MAIL.

Removed - Uncalled for

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Originally posted by Supreme Commander

If you don't know how to have a heated debate (which are 100% allowed!!) without being insulting, derogatory to another poster etc, go watch an episode of CNN's Crossfire. Or something.

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[ 03-07-2005, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: Gordon ]

[Kalshion]

Just thought I'd post an update to this story

(Fox News) ROME ÔÇö Italy demanded answers Saturday as former hostage Giuliana Sgrena was taken off a flight from Iraq hooked to an intravenous drip for a shoulder wound inflicted when American troops fired on a car taking her to the Baghdad airport.

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The shooting at a U.S. checkpoint in Baghdad (search) stoked anti-war sentiment in Italy, where the public was widely opposed to the government's decision to send 3,000 troops to help U.S.-led efforts to secure the country from a violent insurgency. President Bush (search) promised a full investigation

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(News Max) Sgrena: U.S. Troops are War Criminals

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Giuliana Sgrena, the Italian reporter who is accusing U.S. troops on firing on her vehicle for no reason after being released by Iraqi terrorists on Friday, is a harsh critic of the U.S. liberation who has written dozens of reports accusing American soldiers of war crimes, torture and of massacring Iraqi civilians.

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ROME, Italy (CNN) -- An Italian journalist shot by U.S. forces in Iraq shortly after being freed from her captors disputes a U.S. account of the incident in which she was wounded and a security agent protecting her was killed.

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In an article published Sunday in her newspaper, Il Manifesto, Giuliana Sgrena wrote, "Our car was driving slowly," and "the Americans fired without motive." (Read the article)

She described a "rain of fire and bullets" in the incident.

The U.S. military said Sgrena's car rapidly approached a checkpoint Friday night, and those inside ignored repeated warnings to stop

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Again, just an update on this story

[jamotto]

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

I have friends that are in Iraq right now, and more then one of them has heard about this, one of them is based close to where this occurred.

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So then what are they saying about this incident as far as details go?

for example, how far away was the car when they decided to open fire on it? About how many rounds struck the car? Where where the occupants sitting in the car? What kinds of machine guns where used to fire upon the car? etc etc

The media has been immensely vague at the moment. Perhaps your contacts can add some detail to this.

[Guest]

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Originally posted by jamotto:

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

I have friends that are in Iraq right now, and more then one of them has heard about this, one of them is based close to where this occurred.

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So then what are they saying about this incident as far as details go?

for example, how far away was the car when they decided to open fire on it? About how many rounds struck the car? Where where the occupants sitting in the car? What kinds of machine guns where used to fire upon the car? etc etc

The media has been immensely vague at the moment. Perhaps your contacts can add some detail to this.

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To say the least anything that they would tell me as far as specifics are concerned would be conjecture.

I do not know anyone that was immediately involved with the incident.

But SOP is this, checkpoints, each car is told to slow as it is driving toward the checkpoint, with signs, as in written signs beside the road and up the road from the checkpoint, then with hand signs from the soldiers manning the checkpoint, if the car continues toward the checkpoint, and does not slow down, and ignores all warnings, the soldiers give warnings, as in shoot in front of the vehicle, and flashing lights etc, if the vehicle ignores those signals and warnings, then they have permission to open fire on the vehicle to stop it from reaching the checkpoint.

These US soldiers did EXACTLY as they were instructed to do.

This is standard SOP at ALL checkpoints, if a vehicle does NOT slow down for a checkpoint, that vehicle becomes a target to protect the lives of the soldiers manning the checkpoints.

End of story.

The vehicle did not A: slow down before the checkpoint, and B: ignored ALL signals to slow down and STOP for the checkpoint.

Therefore it became a target in defense of the lives of the soldiers manning that checkpoint.

[Guest DocHoliday]

Well if you ask me, they (as in powers at be, not the actual soldiers) just got tired of her big mouth and took justice into their own hands, but it didn't work... We've seen it before.

Of course, since we don't have any details, which again makes this whole story a tad more suspicious, I'll got with Remo. Misunderstandings cause so many accidents it's not even funny. Hopefully this case was nothing more than that.

And yes, of course they were following orders. They are paid to and in more than one way probably must obey. No more, no less.. But so did the Wehrmacht in WWII.

Cheers,

Doc

[Wolferz]

Does anyone else smell communist propaganda crap?

I'm surprised that the N.E.D. wasn't right on top of this one, to silence her reporting for good.

[Kalshion]

U.S. Calls Italian Journalist's Claim 'Absurd'

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WASHINGTON -- The White House on Monday said it was "absurd" for a former hostage in Iraq to charge that U.S. military forces may have deliberately targeted her car as she was being rushed to freedom.

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What I'd like to know is WHY this woman think's our force's deliberately targeted her...

[LostInSpace]

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Originally posted by Kalshion:

What I'd like to know is WHY this woman think's our force's deliberately targeted her...

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She's a leftist that's answer enough.

[Guest DocHoliday]

Nah, he makes a good point. If you were just in a country that is full of all kinds of rebel insurgients and you actually end up blaming the liberators and accusing them of attacking you, that's either Stockholm Syndrome or things are even more complicated than we are led to believe.

Either way, I'd appreciate it, if she stopped "accusing" people, but instead came up with a concrete version of her truth whatever that may be. Even though I think she's on to something, I think it's all getting old pretty fast. Is there an article on it somewhere?

Cheers,

[LostInSpace]

Have a read here:The Jawa Report

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.....Apprently Sgena did suffer a shrapenal wound, but this is consistent with the soldier's version of the story that the engine block was shot which would cause metal debris.....

....What Il Manifesto forgets to mention is that Sgrena was taken by the evil American forces to a US Army hospital for treatment. Right, very unafe....

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[Guest]

Thanks to BMEWS

[LostInSpace]

Here's some possible pics of the car damage The Jawa Report: Images of Sgrena's Car

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If this is the car then it would contradict earlier reports that Sgrena's rescuers had used a truck.

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JAWA: Terrorist Choice in Vehicles Used for Sgrena Escape Plan: A Truck!

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Terrorist Choice in Vehicles Used for Sgrena Escape Plan: A Truck!

UPDATE 4:05 Central time: Italian television station Tg1 reports that a car was used. I have pictures up here. Not sure which report to believe yet.....

This important and overlooked new detail arises. If you have seen as many jihadi videos as me then you know that the vehicle of choice is the small Japanese pickup truck. Check this WaTimes article out:

The left-leaning Italian newspaper La Repubblica reported yesterday that Mr. Calipari decided not to use available escort protection from the elite commandos who protect ItalyÔÇÖs Baghdad embassy.

Instead, he rented an inconspicuous pickup truck to recover Miss Sgrena, wrote La RepubblicaÔÇÖs top investigative reporter, Giuseppe DÔÇÖAvanzo.

A freaking truck? Are you kidding me? You rented a pickup truck to drive down a road where terrorist are known to attack daily?!?!!

The vehicle has been located and a preliminary investigation reveals that "Something that car did caused the soldiers to fire."

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[LostInSpace]

Dang it time ran out.

From Jawa:

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Another Sgrena version of the story from Il Manifesto:

The Americans shone a flashlight at the car and then fired between 300 and 400 bullets at if from an armoured vehicle.

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Here's a comparison from a link provided by Jawa Comparing Sgrena's recollection of events(one of many so far) of 300-400 bullets fired at her vehicle with that of Bonnie and Clydes bullet ridden vehicle I'm Calling BS On The Commie

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Originally posted by Jaguar:

BMEWS

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Exactly.