Senate votes to give Illegals Social Security Benefits (50/49)

[Guest $iLk]

50/49 - 11 Republicans and 39 Democrats voted to further endanger Social Security Retirement by offering payouts to people who are not citizens of this country, who have broken our laws... who is the Senate working for?

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by $iLk:

50/49

- 11 Republicans and 39 Democrats voted to further endanger Social Security Retirement by offering payouts to people who are not citizens of this country, who have broken our laws... who is the Senate working for?

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I think that you anwered your own question....

[Wolferz]

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!!!!?- over

If they're here illegally, How in the hell are they getting a Social Security Card?

Unless it's being used as one of those sucker ploys to ID them for deportation.

[LostInSpace]

Funny how the vast news media hasn't picked up on this story and made a hooplah out if like they've done every other immigrant issue. This is the first I'm hearing anything about it. If it was about the language or other immigrant issues, they'd be harping all over it.

[Eclipse]

????? whoa... WHERE did this come from? last I heard SS was for CITIZENS of the USA.

[Wolferz]

What the hell has the border patrol been spending their budget on, WELCOME SIGNS!!!!????

[Kalshion]

.......

How can you guys NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS?!

It's been in the Drudge Report, wall street journal, and at least two other specific sites for the past YEAR!!!

[LostInSpace]

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Originally posted by Kalshion:

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How can you guys NOT KNOW ABOUT THIS?!

It's been in the Drudge Report, wall street journal, and at least two other specific sites for the past YEAR!!!

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That all might be well and good but where's media blitz that accompanies the other immigrant issues such as putting the screws to them that gets played over and over on local news channels. To be honest, haven't been reading much news as watching the local stuff and I can tell you, being NYC news, someone's keeping this low key because I've yet to see boo about it other than this thread.

[Wolferz]

Well LIS, that is the current modus operandi for what can be commonly referred to as brainwashing. Just like television and radio advertising. Endless repeated loops of information. How many times have you seen a commercial only to have the jingle stuck in your head. If you tell a dog to sit, over and over and over, eventually the dog will comply. It wasn't very long after the WTC was hit that the news media began running a seemingly endless loop of the same report. During the reports they flashed pictures of Osama and the alledged hijackers over and over and over. Today we are still being blitzed by the media but, not with the important news. Instead they run stories about other things, over and over over until you are focused on that issue. The important news is kept under the radar in lieu of what they want you to see. It's slight of hand with a capital S. Jedi mindtricks if you will.

[Kalshion]

Aye

The media doesn't giving flying flip about there own country, thats why they report on stuff that is not important

This Social Security Benefits IS important, because it helps out older people when they can no longer work. By giving this to illegal immigrates or those who are here LEGALLY they are TRASHING the system and spending more of MY tax dollers on a person who can't even speak english for pete's sake!

I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall and listen in on there conversations, because the senate, house and government in general are full of A LOT of traitors, Bush company included, who don't care about the country, last I checked the people in office are supposed to serve the PEOPLE not THEMSELVES

Errrr.... sometimes I wonder why the good lord brought me into this world (no bashing my beliefs.)

[Wolferz]

Eyes wide open now Kal ol buddy?

[Kalshion]

There's isn't a word to DESCRIBE how disgusted I am right now....

Ok.. there is.. but it's not suitable for this board (the SC would ring my neck )

[cutterjohn]

Simple, the Congress is working for major corporations and big government.

I sincerely hope that you don't believe that the "new" Republican party is conservative any longer. After all Georgy Porgy has created the largest(IIRC) government bureaucracy(the inept Department of Homeland "Security") since FDR, and the Democrats are perfectly happy to go along with it as it lines their pocketsses. Along with the creeping towards a police state.

Don't forget they also get welfare now too...

...and what about the restaurant that was admonished for only accepting transactions in English?

...and then we have all the billions spent on the war in Iraq...

The national guard at the border who in realtity are just going to sit on their thumbs while there for their whole 2w...

The elections this fall should be interesting, and the next presidential elections should be even more interesting...

[Wolferz]

The local government here in my area is in process of passing an ordinance making English the official language of the city and the bill will also crack down on businesses that are caught employing illegals by banning them from doing business here.

Now, if the feds want to start admonishing every citizen for wanting their country back, then I guess the civil war against the federal government will be starting soon.

[Guest $iLk]

So I hear Britney Spears is having her new baby soon... ooh ooh and Lindsey Lohan is getting perky on her chest lately eh?

[Darkling]

quote:

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Originally posted by $iLk:

50/49

- 11 Republicans and 39 Democrats voted to further endanger Social Security Retirement by offering payouts to people who are not citizens of this country, who have broken our laws... who is the Senate working for?

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Actually, what the ammendment says is that if they become legal residents, and were paying INTO Social Security BEFORE becoming legal residents, then that money they paid in, would not be forfiet, it would count towards their final calculations.

When you think about it, it's actually pretty smart.

First of all, we can't deny that there's a HUGE labor shortage in the US. Walk into ANY store in the US and you'll see that they're severely understaffed due to the labor shortage. The ONLY reason we havn't gone into a recession in this country, is because illegal immigrants have been filling in many of the gaps. I'm pretty sure that the guys that come and cut my lawn and take care of my shrubs are probably here illegally, at least I know they can't speak any english, and most of the restaurants that I eat at, well I'm pretty sure they are too. The Nanny I hired to take care of my Wife and son, shortly after he was born was also here illegally, but hey, I COULD NOT find someone to take care of them that was here legally, and I looked for MONTHS!

The other thing is that most Illegals normally don't care that they're getting paid under the table, and nothing is going to Social Security, because they feel that they're never going to see that money anyways. This way they will care, or at least the ones that are planning on staying here will care (over half of them go back to where they came from), and if they care, and they have a choice of 2 jobs, one that pays into Social Security and one that doesn't, they're going to go with the one that pays in, and THAT my friends, is good for the country.

Quick Factoid.

In the early 1900's we were allowing over 1 Million new immigrants to come here to the US, about 1% of our population a year. These days we allow less than 700K, or around 0.26% of our population. So compared to our population, we're now letting in about 1/4th of the number we used to allow to come here. Even if we double those numbers, we're still a long way off from 1% of our population. As for all the Doomsayers who say that we're going to see 100 million new immigrants due to these bills, the only way that would happen is if:

A) There were actually 100 Million poeple that wanted to come here (beleive it or not, most people that want to come here already do) and

The Emergency provisions would kick in EVERY year over the next 20 years. The emergency provistions basically allows us to triple the number that are allowed in currently, if the country is in a state of super low unemployment, such as it is now. Here in Florida as an example, our unemployment rate in Broward county is UNDER 3% and statewide it's just over 3%. By the time you figure employment drift, graduates and turnover, that figure is less than 2%. How can the economy continue to grow without a labor force? Hell, I've been looking for an assistant for the past 3 months and I still can't find one!

I can tell you this much, if I can't find help, I have to cut back on my expansion plans, and if I cut back on my expansion plans, that means that I don't get the bigger office, I don't buy the additional furniture, I don't hire the new contractors, I don't buy the extra computers, and I don't pay the additional taxes on the additional revenure I would have brought in WITH The expansion. There's a HECK of a lot of economic activity that gets shut down if you can't find any help. One of my good friends had to cut back on a restuarant expansion he had planned because he doesn't have enough waiters now, so he figures, what's going to happen when he has all the additional seats, and no one to wait on them? Again, economic expansion coming to a grinding halt.

[aramike]

[Darkling]

1. On the Labor shortage...

Articles like these coming from the federal reserve illustrate the point that I'm making. I have 3 companies. A Telemarketing company, that is SEVERELY short Staffed, even though I'm paying about $1000.00 a month in Employment Advertising for jobs for that company. I also have a Computer Services company, that is again very short staffed, both in the back end support services and in the front line techs and installers. In addition, I have a Headhunting service, where we help company's basically "Steal" employees from other companies, because they themselves are short staffed. Between the 3 companies I have literally hundreds of job openings, so when you tell me that there are tons of unemployed people, I just don't see it. Keep in mind that I'm looking for unskilled workers in telelmarketing, which pays about $10.00 an hr to start, but most make about $15-25 an hr. I'm also looking for semi-skilled secreterial type positions, Accounting Clerks, Accountants, Computer Techs and Programmers. Pretty much the full spectrum from low end to high end, and both my company and the companies I work with pay employees TOP dollar, we're not looking for exploitative wages, NEVER have and NEVER will. I believe that an unhappy employee is an unproductive employee and I won't have that in my organizations, nor would I ever promote that. Also, IF THERE WASN'T a labor shortage, then WHY do you go to Home Depot and see HUGE signs that say that they're hiring. Why do you see help wanted signs all over the mall when you go shopping there. Why do you see almost EVERY US based website not only showing what they have, but also a Career section showing the job openings they have? And lastly, WHY in the world would companies like Bloomberg pay my company $25000.00 to find them Programmers? And that's just ONE example.

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Originally posted by aramike:

The thing is, if we lost every single illegal worker in America tomorrow, what would most likely occur is a small rise in inflation (due to undocumented workers being in the agriculture industry).....

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Are you insane? The Federal reserve frets over a 1/4 Point increase or decreas in interest rates. They go crazy over a 1% rise or drop in unemployment. Yet you seem to feel that if the US lost 5% of it's workforce, it won't impact us negatively??

Where do you think our food supply comes from? Who do you think is building all those new buildings in your city? Who do you think serves you at many restuarants? If 5% of our workforce, all of a sudden, where not there, it would cause a HUGE disruption in many parts of our economy.

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Originally posted by aramike:

I'll tell you what: tell me you're city of residence and I'll bet I can find several LEGAL candidates for that position, and do so from here. Perhaps you got CHEAP labor, but that, quite frankly, is exploitative.

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OK, I own a staffing agency, but somehow, you have more resources than I do in finding qualified employees. Maybe I should bring you in as a partner.

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Originally posted by aramike:

The bottom line is that Social Security is FOR AMERICAN CITIZENS. ....

... Simple question: If a bank robber is captured, serves his time, comes out of prison clean, is he ENTITLED to the money he stole? ...

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First of all, get your facts straight, Social Security isn't only for American Citizens, it's also for Legal Aliens that are here and have paid into the system for at least 10 Yrs. Second, the Robber will get 40K a year allocated to him while in Prison, so why shouldn't the Alien get his Social Security counted towards him, that HE PAID FOR!!!. Third, Slavery was once legal, Discrimination was once legal, Beating your wife was once legal, Child Labor was once legal... Just because something is on the books as a law, doesn't make it right.

Simple Question, if a bunch of European Immigrants come over here and stole the land of the people living here, should they and their children be allowed to keep it? Oops, sorry that already happened, and now they're trying to shut the door on anyone else who wants an opportunity, the difference is, they're not coming here to try to steal anything from you, they're coming here to WORK and send money back to their starving families back in their country, but of course, we don't care, We're rich and we DON'T want to share, we want these opporunities all to ourselves right.

[Marvin]

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I'm also looking for semi-skilled secreterial type positions, Accounting Clerks, Accountants, Computer Techs and Programmers.

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Darkling,

I know of two unemployed computer techs and a third who can probably be coaxed out of retirement. Not to mention my son who will be graduating and looking for work (in the same field) not too far down the time line.

All are U.S. citizens. All do quality work ... and expect to be compensated likewise.

What can I tell 'em about your organization?

[aramike]

[Darkling]

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Originally posted by Marvin:

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I'm also looking for semi-skilled secreterial type positions, Accounting Clerks, Accountants, Computer Techs and Programmers.

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Darkling,

I know of two unemployed computer techs and a third who can probably be coaxed out of retirement. Not to mention my son who will be graduating and looking for work (in the same field) not too far down the time line.

All are U.S. citizens. All do quality work ... and expect to be compensated likewise.

What can I tell 'em about your organization?

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Well, first I'm located in South Florida, as for compensation, I've always been very generous in what I pay my employees, that's never been an issue with me. However, I rarely hire Tech's straight out of college or unemployed, because both usually require substantial Training or retraining, and I would prefer to pay more for someone who has the skills that I need, and the experience, than someone who's overly green. However, I am willing to take a chance with someone who is willing to learn AND is very motivated, I've taken some chances before with some of my guys and sometimes it's paid off, and sometimes it was a complete waste of time. If they're in South Florida, PM me with thier info and I'll see what I can do.

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Originally posted by aramike:

Talk about picking and choosing...

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. On the Labor shortage...

Articles like these coming from the federal reserve illustrate the point that I'm making.

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That article is over a year and 1/2 old. Also, you conveniently didn't comment on paragraphs such as this: The economy and its many labor markets are in constant flux, even in good times, as some employers add jobs while others shed them. Indeed, some cities still genuinely need more jobs, not workers."

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I have 3 companies. .... Between the 3 companies I have literally hundreds of job openings, .... WHY in the world would companies like Bloomberg pay my company $25000.00 to find them Programmers? And that's just ONE example.

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I find a lot of that very difficult to believe because, if it were as bad as you say, you wouldn't be in business. Again, where do you operate and I'll show you people who are looking for positions there.

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Ah yes, a half a year... that was a LIFETIME ago. Whatever....

Actually, the reason I started the staffing business is because I saw how bad the Job situation was. Now, if you want to help me out, I need Programmers and Accountants in NY, Preferably with both Unix & Windows Server and Cisco experience, Flebotomists, Accountants, Secretaries & Unix Programmers in Philadelphia, Pharmacists, Commercial Bankers, Accountants with MAS 90 experience, Secretaries & Cisco Certified Techs in South Florida and for my own organization in South Florida I need Outgoing Cold Call reps, Techs with Cisco, Linux, Windows Server & Unix Experience, a Personal Assistant and an office manager/Accountant with Quickbooks & Mas 90 Experience (Since I'm switching). My office is in Deerfield Beach close to the Palm Beach county line.

As for the rest of the stuff, let's just agree to disagree, I just feel that the existing "Quotas" are WAY too low, I can tell you that Unions here in Florida practically don't exist and the average Joe (or Jose) in construction is still pulling down some serious green, it's not about finding cheap labor around here, it's about finding it at all. When my house was under construction, I saw all kinds of guys coming here doing the construction, and when I mentioned something to the supervisors, they said that they simply can't find ANYONE to do the work, and so they have to hire these subrontracters who usually hire illegals, they just simply have no other choice. And this is from DR Horton, "America's Largest Homebuilder"

Also, I would say that most of my American Indian Friends would have to disagree with some of your statements, but that's OK, Like I said, we'll just agree to disagree on this.

Oh and I ALMOST FORGOT, I used to manage a Home Depot, so I still have a lot of friends over there. If you walk into the average Home Depot these days, you'll find 1 person handling 2 and 3 departments. It's not because they don't want to hire anyone, it's because they CAN'T FIND anyone. Same for Lowes, Same for Walmart, Same for Target. I don't know what store you're "Friend" runs, but I'm talking about stores that normally hire at least 100 to 200 people that are literally running at 50% capacity. An old friend of mine that quit Home Depot to run a Super Walmart here in Coral Springs, told me that he needed to hire 30 Cashiers in addition to another 30 to 50 Staff, and he's pretty much hiring almost anyone who will fill out an application.

[ 06-18-2006, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Darkling ]

[aramike]

I'm only going to respond to a little bit of this because 90% has literally nothing to do with what we're debating.

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Ah yes, a half a year... that was a LIFETIME ago. Whatever....

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No, a YEAR-AND-A-HALF. It's not FOREVER ago, but I doesn't necessarily reflect the job market today. Besides, I did agree that in some sectors there is a labor shortage. It just isn't as bad as you make it out to be.

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Also, I would say that most of my American Indian Friends would have to disagree with some of your statements, but that's OK, Like I said, we'll just agree to disagree on this.

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Disagree with what, exactly? I illustrated how you were trying to take 2 different sides of the same argument (read: paradox argument).

By the way, I'm half Cherokee (non-traditional).

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they said that they simply can't find ANYONE to do the work, and so they have to hire these subrontracters who usually hire illegals, they just simply have no other choice.

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I find that VERY suspect, because most construction jobs are skilled labor that requires certification. While there are some "elbow grease" jobs that are occassionally filled by illegals, that certainly doesn't represent the majority.

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Oh and I ALMOST FORGOT, I used to manage a Home Depot, so I still have a lot of friends over there.

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Dude, is there anything you DON'T do or haven't done?

Seriously, your resume will not make me ignore MY education and experience (which is something that I choose to NOT flaunt due to the fact that I prefer to debate on the merit of the argument).

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I don't know what store you're "Friend" runs

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I didn't share because it's irrelevent to the merits of the argument regarding "now hiring" signs.

[ 06-18-2006, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: aramike ]

[Darkling]

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Originally posted by aramike:

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Oh and I ALMOST FORGOT, I used to manage a Home Depot, so I still have a lot of friends over there.

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Dude, is there anything you DON'T do or haven't done?

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Very Little,

My family was VERY poor growing up, and so I had to devise very early on how to make money. When I was 12 I started a Snow Cone business with my Mom's help, but the time I was 15 I was working in Tile Setting and also bought my first computer, A Radio Shack TRS-80, by the time I was 17 I had my own Tile setting business and earning over 40K a year. When I was 18 I was hit by a car and for the next 2 years had to go to Physical Therapy almost every day, while "retraining" my right arm and leg, during this time, I became very interested in computers and built and repaired them as a hobby, however at the time I couldn't really see how I could profit from it, so once I was physically able to, I started working at a Home Depot, within a few yrs, I was an Assistant Dept head, then Dept. Head, then Assistant Manager, then Manager, however, when Bernie Marcus decided to hand over the reigns to Arthur Blank, I didn't like the direction the company was taking, so I took my stock Options and quit, From there I got back into the Computer repair business (which I had always kept as a Hobby) but my timing was all off, since it was the time of the collapse of all things internet related and there were way too many people out of work in this field. I had to do something, so I took a job selling Advertising and within 5 yrs I was running the Company, Since the Owner wanted to leave the state, I offered to buy the company from her and she agreed, After installing Management to run the company for me, I went back to my first love (Computers), but with the Job Market getting tighter and finding employees becoming harder, a Friend of mine convinced me to partner with him in a Head Hunting Venture, leaving me with my current situation. Next year I'll be 40, HOPEFULLY, with a lot of luck, I'll hit my mark of having a Million $ in assets by then....

All of my Education has come from books that I've purchased (I have well over 100 books in my library on computers alone, plus I have more in Advertising, Marketing, Self Help - You should read Anthony Robbins, he's really good... ), so I am self made in every aspect. I'm a Republican but I don't always tow the party line, but I almost never vote Democrat... So there's my "business" life's story in a nutshell. Hehe.

[Wolferz]

What say we keep it on topic please.

Resumes, want ads and autobiographies should be placed in the realm of Private Message.

Thanks

I think, the main point, is not what would happen to our economy if every illegal resident was rounded up and returned to sender.

It's the very fact that we have twelve to thirteen million illegal squatters roaming our land. These people commit many other crimes on top of entering the country sans visa, work permit or passport. They steal identities, falsify documents and take jobs in sensitive areas of our land. They are lawbreakers from the top to the bottom of the issue. They should be treated as such. No different than any other criminal.

Give them back what they paid into SSA?

I think not!

In order to gain employment in this country, you need identification which includes a Social Security number, drivers license, and birth certificate.

If any illegal resident gained employment and paid into the system, they did so with falsified documents. Which makes them all criminals. Therefore subject to forfeiture of said funds and immediate deportation.

Bottom Line. If we don't enforce all of our laws,then we shouldn't enforce any of them.

Can you say Anarchy?

[ 06-19-2006, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: Wolferz ]

[aramike]

Yeah, bios aside ...

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I'm a Republican but I don't always tow the party line, but I almost never vote Democrat...

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That's a start.

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I think, the main point, is not what would happen to our economy if every illegal resident was rounded up and returned to sender.

It's the very fact that we have twelve to thirteen million illegal squatters roaming our land. These people commit many other crimes on top of entering the country sans visa, work permit or passport. They steal identities, falsify documents and take jobs in sensitive areas of our land. They are lawbreakers from the top to the bottom of the issue. They should be treated as such. No different than any other criminal.

Give them back what they paid into SSA?

I think not!

In order to gain employment in this country, you need identification which includes a Social Security number, drivers license, and birth certificate.

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EXACTLY. We should look as these people for what they are: criminals.

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If any illegal resident gained employment and paid into the system, they did so with falsified documents. Which makes them all criminals. Therefore subject to forfeiture of said funds and immediate deportation.

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Indeed. Funny how we're talking about turning a blind eye to the fraud of illegal aliens but someone who's an actual citizen would get the book thrown at them...