Hey! Where'd "Engineering 101" go?

[Joel Schultz]

Just wondering.

DeSylva, are you still working on theories for the other techs you listed? Or has that been nixed due to the strategy guide coming out?

And in case it's been permanently retired, for whatever reason, Sunanta, I'm awarding you 5 stars for being my foil in the discussion there And 5 stars to anyone else who contributed that I can remember. It was a lively discussion while it lasted!

[ 04-19-2001: Message edited by: Joel Schultz ]

[Guest]

Hmmm, no, I have no idea where it went. I'm still formulating my own theories, and they have no connection to the strategy guide - these are just my own musings. Someone care to explain? Any of the moderators know what's up? If it's been deleted, I'd really appreciate knowing why because a) I've already agreed not to turn thi into any type of project, I've introduced myself to _shadow_ and offered any and all assistance I can give, and c) if, for some strange reason, this thread HAS been deleted, I'll just take it off forum and onto a mailing list. I mean, let's face it, it wasn;t really solely a BC tech discussion - it was more a scifi tech discussion in general.

If there are anmy moderators who have, for any reason, taken exception to this thread, feel free to email me at [email protected] and I'll gladly discuss this situation. OTOH, if it's just a forum glitch (which I hope it is) then could someone restore the thread, otherwise we'll continue in this new thread of Joel's. I was really enjoying this thread, so let's keep it going...*grin*. Here is the next post I was about to make...

(BTW, anyone save a copy before the thread disappeared? If so, could they email it to me?)

Okay. I've been thinking about it, and in examining the issue of a hyperdrive, we have to consider it from two angles - both the mode of it's operation, and the logistics of such a device.

As far as mode goes, no matter what method of "hyperjumping" you consider - whether it's changing dimensions to a place where points in space are closer together, whether it's creating a special "field" that allows you to travel FTL, using some kind of tunnel that travels between two points in real space in a shorter distance, or whether it's using an artifical wormhole, they all revolve around the same concept - gravity. To change dimensions, you'd need to travel through a singularity - a point where gravity becomes so strong that the laws of physics are broken and allow you to pass into a new "dimension" (or rather, framework of dimensions). A field that allows FTL travel is, by definition, a powerful gravitational field. A "tunnel" that links two points in space in a shorter distance than the distance between them is a gravitational anomaly - a "wormhole", whether it be naturally or artifically created. And a wormhole is simply a black or white hole that, rather than ending at a singularity, has a passage THROUGH that singularity that exits at a different point.

If I had the graphical expertise, I could illustrate the theory behind using gravitational distortion for FTL travel, but I don't, so I won't attempt it. Suffice to say that gravitational forces change the space around them. The kind of forces we see in nature (in our local space, anyway) are negligible - the kind of forces used to change locations in space are (or would be, if we could find them) massive.

So the mode of operation I see a hyperdrive following is this:

1) The hyperdrive coordinates are locked in. The navigational computer calculates the exact parameters of the gravitational field required to exit at the appropriate location. Greater distance = greater complexity, which is why hyperjumps are only possible within a region - not usually between planets or into other systems. Greater mass = greater gravitaional force required, and so a longer jump time. This is because the energy required to create the appropriate field is equal to mass x speed of light squared

2) The hyperdrive begins powering up. It projects a gravitational field to the specific parameters defined by the navicomputer. It might help, at this point, to imagine the "rubber sheet" theory. Imagine that real space is a rubber sheet with grid-lines drawn on it. Gravity distorts real space. Imagine a weight was dropped on the sheet. The sheet would stretch under the weight - those grid-lines would be distorted, just as real space is being distorted.

3) This distortion continues as the gravitational field grows stronger, until eventually a point is reached where the gravitational field is so strong, a singularity is produced (imagine the sheet tearing). This is similar to the process that creates a black hole - a star's mass becomes so immense that it's gravitational field causes it to fall in on itself. Usually, a singularity would destroy all matter that passed into it. Our hyperdrive must produced a singularity that can be passed through - a "ring shaped" singularity. The moment the singularity is produced, the ship passes through it. It has just "entered" hyperspace, even though the process of jumping (as we see it from our ship) has been occurring since the gravitational field was produced.

4) The transition through hyperspace is instantaneous. Imagine the weight manages to tear the sheet, but instead of falling through, it actually falls into another point on the sheet. It distorts the space at this point as well - this is why we see both an entry anomaly and an exit anomaly in the game. The gravitational field is then decreased - the "rubber weight" is being lifted off the sheet and the grid-lines are now reducing to their normal size.

5) The gravitational field is negated - the ship is now in normal space.

This theory addresses the following concerns. As has been elaborated, transition through hyperspace should be instantaneous if it is the same as the "wormhole" effect. In this model, the actual transition through hyperspace is instantaneous. It is the generation of the gravitational field that takes the time, and this is why a hyperjump can take up to 2 minutes. It takes this long to generate the field. The reason the ship appears (to those on board) to be moving during this time is that this gravitational field is already affecting the passage of light. As light is what we perceive the universe by - it is what we see - we perceive motion. I call this pseudovision. Until the point is reached where the singularity is generated, the ship has not entered hyperspace, but it is not really in real space, either, as it is surrounded by an intense gravitational field - it is in a transitional state.

The logistics of such a device are a little harder to work out. Given the theory above, how do we generate such a gravitational field? And more important, get rid of it again? To generate such a field, we need incredible mass. That can be explained - perhaps the jump drive carries a massive compressed "bottle" of neutrons that provide the mass. But how is it controlled? If it is there all the time, then the ship would be at the center of a jump anomaly all of the time - it would constantly be at the point of singularity, but never be able to leave.

Perhaps there is some kind of device - the "gravitational stabiliser" - that stops the gravitational field of the neutrons having an effect at all times. This is the easiest way of explaining it, but it misses one important point - what if there is a power failure? No more "stabiliser" field, and BANG - your BC has just become a black hole.

So I propose the following system. The jump drive consists of two elements - a massive concentration of neutrons, and a massive concentration of antineutrons, so arrayed so that their gravitational fields form a ring that surrounds the ship. Their gravitational fields CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT (because one is matter and one is antimatter, they both project gravitational fields, they are equally as massive, but they are opposites and so their g-fields cancel each other out). The jump drive also contains a reserve supply of antineutrons, secondary to the main supply.

When a ship goes into hyperspace, the gravitational stabiliser bleeds off the antineutrons into space in such a way so as to allow the neutrons to project a precisely calculated gravitational field - exactly calibrated to take the ship through an artifical wormhole( /tunnel/dimension where space is different/breach the speed of light) that exits at the preferred location. When this process is finished, the antineutrons are replenished foirst from the reserve supply, and then from the radine supplies via the reactor.

This model explains why jumping costs so much radine (which it will in BC:M, or so I am told). It also deals with the "what if" of a power failure - the antineutrons and neutrons cancel out each other's gravitational force by their very nature, so even if the reactor core was ejected, they'd continue to do this. in their rest state. In the event of a reactor failure during the jump, the reserve antineutron supply, which is already in storage, will be enough to drop the ship out of hyperspace, even if the reactor was to fail and there were no antineutrons left to replenish the supply. The ship would simply be stuck in a gravity field. In this case, the ship could bleed off the neutrons as required to reduce gravitational field until it was back to normal. This would render the jump drive inoperable, but it is unlikely this would ever occur in the game, as ships with reactor failures are usually destroyed long before they'd attempt to hyperjump. I think we'd only see this used as an emergency procedure during fiction writing.

This proposal also explains the "what if" of nullspace. I'm sure we all remember those collisions that could send a ship catapulting at super high speeds and into nullspace. This could be explained as a power surge running through the ship disturbing this jump drive and causing an unwanted jump anomaly, that exits at an unspecified location - null space. It also explains why, during hyperjump, we see a ring of light energy around the ship - even though gravity fields do not give off light, the antineutrons that have to be released to allow the neutron gravity field to take effect would combine with matter to give off light energy.

So, in summary, the model I propose for hyperdrive operation is as follow...

1) The navigational officer locks in the jump coordinates.

2) The hyperdrive begins to release antineutrons from the drive core into space. The reaction of these with normal matter is what produces the halo/light effect around the ship.

3) As this happens, the neutrons in the drive core begin to assert a gravitational field around the ship. This, in turn, affects light around the ship, causing it to effectively disappear from the normal universe (thus it is invisible) and causing the crew inside the ship to perceive motion.

4) As the hyperdrive's gravitational field grows stronger, it eventually reaches a singularity - at this point, the ship enters hyperspace for an instant, traverses to it's exit point, and leaves hyperspace as the reserve antineutrons are injected into the drive core.

5) The antineutron supply is gradually replenished from the reactor. The gravitational field slowly reduces, and the crew perceive decceleration towards their target.

6) The antineutron supply is completely replenished, and so the gravity field is cancelled out, and once more the ship is visible in normal space.

Comments? Violent objections? Cycling Airlocks? *grin*.

[Sunanta]

It's... Gone! No!!! [takes a stimulant]

flkaoiuZSzxuzxkasdipuqew

Uh, hehe, um...

Well, it was good while it lasted. I hope it isn't gone permanently, though...

Oh, and thanks, Joel! If anyone deserves the stars, it's you for taking the initiative to start the thread and continue contributing in the first place. For what it's worth, you (as well as everyone else I remember) have my 5-starred vote.

UPDATE: Strangely, page two of Engineering 101 still exists at http://www.3000ad.com/cgibin/ultimatebb.cg...=6&t=000151&p=2 though I don't know how long it will remain. I've saved a copy just in case it's set for permanent removal. Page one seems to have already been removed, though.

NOTE: The URL above isn't working right- If the page is still up, click on the above link and remove the comma that seems to be appearing at the end of it when it opens.

Have to go now, have just seen DeSylva's post- he must have created it while I was writing! I'll see if I can respond a little later.

ANOTHER NOTE: That link is know working.

[ 04-22-2001: Message edited by: Sunanta ]

[Joel Schultz]

quote:

---

Okay. I've been thinking about it, and in examining the issue of a hyperdrive, we have to consider it from two angles - both the mode of it's operation, and the logistics of such a device.

---

YE GODS! Ye've done it, DeSylva -- you've wrenched us out of hyperspace physics theory back into the game & its operation!

I'm personally through with the sci-fi hyperdrive spacetimewarpdimensionality theory business. I know I've personally beaten that horse to death several times over during the course of page 2, so I'm going to shut up about it now. Besides, we don't know what _shadow_'s up to...

DeSylva, you said you contacted _shadow_? Did he say if he's been following this any? Just wondering if all we've been doing is blowing hot air or if it actually might get used. That'd be cool, wouldn't it?

I like the operations standpoint you brought up. My question is, though, why anti-neutron gravity would cancel out gravity -are we assuming they somehow produce antigravitons which have the same effect as gravitons but annihilate them instead? And too, how do we cope with lugging around neutrons enough to fake a black-hole? Remember, gravity may cancel out but inertia doesn't.

I'd propose that we have some sort of amplification device that allows us to cart around a resoanable mass and then amplify the gravitation effect it has. Lind of like a laser amplifies weak light into a concentrated beam, only this would amplify gravitons.

Alternatively, physicists still don't know what inertia is beyond the fact that matter possesses it and that it's related to mass. Given we have inertial dampening already (correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what the "Guardian" field is that I've read about in the RP threads is?) we could simply be employing a local inertia reduction device on our neutron/anti-neutron cache so it seems less massive.

I can just imagine a name for this drive: the Gravity Donut Hyperdrive! Mmmm...donuts...

quote:

---

NOTE: The URL above isn't working right- If the page is still up, click on the above link and remove the comma that seems to be appearing at the end of it when it opens

---

Helpful advice: check your URL tags - the page you link (declared within the initial URL tag) to is different from the text that shows in the forum (between the URL begin/end tags).

quote:

---

If there are anmy moderators who have, for any reason, taken exception to this thread, feel free to email me at [email protected] and I'll gladly discuss this situation. OTOH, if it's just a forum glitch (which I hope it is) then could someone restore the thread, otherwise we'll continue in this new thread of Joel's.

---

Agreed, but if you (moderators) did kill the last thread and it's not too much trouble, please also post the reason here (or privately message us) before closing down this thread. That way we all learn why we're being sent to the airlock and know better next time...

Just in case, I think I'll get a head start and join DeSylva standing over by the airlock. We get to suit up first, right?

[ 04-20-2001: Message edited by: Joel Schultz ]

[Joel Schultz]

As per my Modus Operandi, I will introduce a new topic with a bit of creative writing...

[RP]

Cmdr. Mach strode into Dr. Elise Keller's office in Medibay.

"Dr. Keller, we have a problem. I've been reviewing the ship records in preparation for our moving out, and notice there's no cloning data on Chief Engineer St. Cloud."

Elise put down the crew medical report summary she was working on and pulled up Brendan's records. A few moments passed as she scanned them while Alan waited.

"Galcom HQ ordered Brendan's cloning records deleted when he was first assigned to this ship seven years ago." She looked up at Alan. "Apparently, someone must be worried about his former ties to Galcom Academy or the Experimental Propulsion Division at Galcom Advanced Starship Design Labs being a security risk."

Alan frowned. "So what happens if he gets badly injured or killed?"

"Badly injured? So long as some original, reasonably undamaged tissue of the injury, like a limb or organ, can be found, I can clone it. It will take much longer than usual though, since the tissue won't be a pure, pristine sample like the cloning module was designed to work with. If he gets killed...I'm sorry, but that's that."

Alan contemplated that. Chief Engineers' health was always at risk. Engineering could be a dangerous place during combat. There were all sorts of hazards from damaged equipment. Not to mention it was an attractive target for sabotage by armed intruders.

Elise went back to her report. As Alan turned to leave Medibay, he made a mental note to have his combat officer allocate additional Marines to search duty for intruder suppression. Now they got two uncloneables to watch over during an intruder alert; that'll cut into our reserves. For one, it explained why the Cavanagh's record indicated a weakness with regard to intruder control.

It was that record which had inspired the raider attack during the training session St. Cloud was teaching, thinking the cruiser was easy pickings ripe for capture. Little did they realize that Galcom always kept its assets manned by cadets well-guarded. Although the raiders got lucky when they killed the former Commander (and inadvertently opening the door for Alan to receive his first command), they did not count on the crack force of Earthcom and Galcom Marines who were running their own joint refresher course on the ship at the time.

With the conclusion of the training mission, those Marines had all returned to their original assignments, else Alan would've felt better about the situation. Heaven help us if we get caught shorthanded during a ground assault.

[/RP]

Here's a new non-hyperdrive related question to chew on. According to SC, for gaming reasons we can't clone the commander, but for "story" lines the reason is security. (Where am I digging that up? A forum search I did awhile back on cloning; the discussion took place back when Jon Ballinger was still around).

No one starts out a commander; I assume you work your way up through the ranks and at some point were clonable as "crew". Why the transition? What cloning hazard do commanders pose?

Come to think of it, there was only 1 RP thread that dealt extensively with cloning at all. The rest don't really touch it, probably because of the possibilty of crazy cloning scenarios getting out of hand (Gallion (Galcom) vs. Gallion (Insurgent)! The War of 100 Rattlers! ).

Anyway, only the SC knows, but my guess is perhaps they don't want an intruder to storm Medibay and steal the cloning info, escape and clone the commander elsewhere for interrogation. Commanders may be privy to more fleet secrets than their officers, and these secrets must be kept safe.

Any thoughts about this? SC says cloning commanders are a security risk. Why?

[ 04-20-2001: Message edited by: Joel Schultz ]

[Cmdr Nova]

Well, Joel, I remember in the BC3k manual, how they explained cloned people not having their experience back to where they had it. It said that the clone had the exact mental pattern of the crewmember at the point that he/she joined the ship (the time that the clone data was inputed to the systems).

That means there shouldn't be any security risk of even a commander getting cloned; they could probably get the same, if not more, information from the other officers' cloning data.

Just my $0.02.

[Joel Schultz]

quote:

---

Cmdr Nova

That means there shouldn't be any security risk of even a commander getting cloned

---

Cloning discussion, excerpts below (DeSylva may remember this ).

quote:

---

Supreme Commander

Your alter ego can't be cloned for security reasons.

---

I'm taking the above quote to indicate there's a security risk involved in cloning commanders. Maybe I interpreted it wrong?

[ 04-20-2001: Message edited by: Joel Schultz ]

[Guest]

I hate cloning! I really hate the concept, so I'm staying well out of it. Cloning tissues will simply produce identical cells. Cloning a germ cell can produce offspring, but they have to be implanted and carried to birth. These are our modern technologies.

As posted in a previous thread, I see cloning "tanks" where the cell construction is caried out in a medium fluid sturated with viral vectors of some kind or another. These viral vectors are able to carry DNA payloads and infect cells with them. But something as complex as a body would have to be constructed through the use of computer technology. the individual cells could be regenerated rom something as simple as a skin cell, but they'd have to be assembled. As for brain function, I can only assume that some kind of mental pattern is stored which is then imprinted on the newly cloned body.

There are SO many ethical and conceptual dilemmas around cloning I can;t get my head around it. Believe me - hyperspace physics is simpler! *grin*.

[Joel Schultz]

Heh, agreed; I refuse to touch with a 10 meter pole the social implications of cloning. Having the tech IMO opens a major can'o'worms on all fronts, but SC put it in (ostensibly for gameplay reasons), so we gotta live with it as best we can without gazing too deeply at it.

Huh, maybe, unless someone else has a good idea regarding the security reasons behind not cloning Commanders, this is a topic best left alone.

[Guest]

WRT hyperspace...

Hyperspace is not a term with a meaning that applies to modern physics. It is pure scifi. So what do you define as hyperspace?

My argument is that, if you define "hyperspace" as the space outside out own universe, then modern physics says that transition through this "hyperspace" will be instantaneous with relation to our own perception of time. See my theory regarding hyperspace earlier in this thread.

In other words, the moment that your gravitational field is powerful enough to produce a singularity, and your ship passes through it, you leave the universe and reenter it another point. No time passes. This passage into and out of hyperspace occurs instantly. In my theory above, the time taken is the time for the gravity field to be generated.

And yes, I was taking a leap of faith with my "gravity/antigravity" proposal. Do we go, instead, with some kind of gravity amplification field? Perhaps we could carry an initial seed of dense neutrons, and then create some kind of positive feedback wave to create a gravitational anomaly. What do you all think? As I said, whatever we do, the drive has to be gravitational stable at RESTING STAGE - so if there is a power failure, the neutrons will not turn the ship into a black hole. We can;t simply cart around a massive neutron ring and alleviate it's effects with some special field because then if the field fails, we are in trouble...*grin*.

I contacted _shadow_ over the forum

private messaging because I don't have his email address. I haven't heard back yet, but he may not be familiar with our forum yet either. I look forward to hearing from him. =)

[Corsair]

First post, but I've got a few questions of of my own about BC hyperspace physics...

One is, when hyperspacing, and a ship is caught in that energy wave, does the affected ship also get caught in the jump? If not, is it affected in any other way?

I got the basis for this from B5, since when a ship opens a jump point a fighter or other cap ship could go through the point.

Two, Is there some way of recoodinating hyperjumps so you could go to any point in the universe?

[Cmdr Nova]

Matt G.:

#1: I don't think it's possible to get another ship caught in hyperspace, because "hyperjumping" is when you:

Bring your ship up to "hyperspace". Hyperspace is sort of: (in example) if (normal) space itself was a 2D plane, then hyperspace would be the plane directly above and below it (yes, the same thing; hard to explan completely). The hyperdrive makes you "dip" into hyperspace as if it were a body of water, so you are still in space, but aren't visible (like in BCM, how you go invisible, but are detectable by other ships).

Then you traverse the same distance, but faster than in normal space because (i forgot the exact reason but it's one of the two or both combined): the amount of hyperspace is scaled differently than the coordinates in normal space (like having 2 different pieces of graph paper, but different measurements from point (x1,y1) to (x2,y2), and/or you fly at CTL (Close to Light), Light, or FTL (Faster Than Light) speeds while in "hyperspace".

Exit Hyperspace.

(You can also read DeSylva's post for another explanation, but it doesn't really match ingame physics.)

It's more complicated than that, and was discussed before the Engineering 101 thread was deleted, but that's a good load of it and is what i can remember from it.

#2: Yes, but it takes a ton of power to traverse such a distance of hyperspace, so a ship alone can't do it. In the game, there are jump gates that do this for you, but only go to it's set destination.

Oh, and if you collide and get certain damage, or something happens during a jump (the target is destroyed as you start entering hyperspace, reactor failure, etc), you may also end up in null space. Null space is an empty void in uncharted space, with a wormhole that transports you back to "real space". You can only get there by a jump error or problem.

I'm pretty new to this game universe, so I don't really know much, but the engineering 101 thread was really helpful. I think we should have another tech discussion soon. That's one of my favorite kinds of discussions.

---

BCM Release Date: 5/27/2001 @ EBGames

---

It's been a month since the 1st demo came out, and there are supposed to be 6; anyone know when the other 5 come out (they all have to come out soon, cuz SC (Derek; manager) said they'd definitely make a summer deadline?

I'll be watching....

[Sunanta]

OK, sorry- had some computer trouble...

Cmdr Nova, you are mostly right in your description of hyperspace. The only thing is that hyperspace is not the 'plane' above and below the normal space 'plane' (if you want to look at it that way). It is the 3D volume or space surrounding the 2D plane of normal space, or without the 2D plane analogy, the 4D hyperspace surrounding normal 3D spacetime.

DeSylva- Whew! OK, now at least someone agrees with me regarding the 'no time passes in hyperspace' theory. My idea about the time taken to transverse hyperspace is that you aren't completely in hyperspace, therefore the temporal effects of hyperspace wouldn't completely apply- therefore you would still experience some form of time. Again, my analogy for how this might be possible, at least on a 2D plane is a square twisting along it's horizontal axis. Borrowing my little diagram from the Engineering 101 thread:

-----/-----

By the way, guys, antimatter doesn't produce antigravity (i.e. antineutrons wouldn't produce antigravitons). Both matter and antimatter have positive mass, therefore they both produce gravity. Negative matter, the polar opposite of both matter and antimatter (presumably there is negatvie matter and antimatter as well), is what produces antigravity. This is because it has negative mass. On the neutron ring issue, neutrons would have such an incredibly massive gravitational field due to their density that one spoonfull would be about a billion tons. Since matter and energy are essentially two different forms of the same thing, some sort of negative energy might counteract the gravity of the neutrons, though you'd need an impossible amount of such energy. And, as Desylva said, if such a field failed, you'd be in serious trouble...

You would also have to move around the singularity that the neutrons have become, then turn it back into neutrons, which is needs an explanation I don't look forward to contemplating.

Dang, I missed the interesting, if short lived cloning discussion. Such issues can be resolved, though not without going into some serious philosophy (which can be rather dry, by the way).

Oh, and thanks Joel. That link should be working now.

[Corsair]

What would happen, theoritically, if a ship jumped at the exact same moment as getting hit by weapons fire? And suppose the ship is in direct contact with another ship(I.E. Ramming) and jumps at that moment? Since tecnically the two forms of matter (or antimatter anyways) are existing in one place briefly, then the jump field should affect that too?

[Joel Schultz]

Hm. I think at we have to have some way of warping spacetime through gravity without lugging around a huge mass. I mean, think of how many items need to have some sort of "warped space" field: shields, tractor beams, hyperdrive, VTOL jets (assuming they're "antigravity"), force fields...

Kind of hard to say what it is. Relativity holds that gravity is a warping of spacetime, but scientists still theorize about graviton wave/particles being the quantum that I guess transmits this force or causes the warping. So what if in 3000AD we finally have a gravity amplification device that, in principle like a laser if not in exact operation, can amplify weak graviton emissions (weak gravitation fields)? Perhaps also like lasers, the gravity amplifiers aren't too incredibly efficient, so it'd explain why we use so much Radine to generate the massive effect required for hyperspace. Like lasers, the graviton emissions could easily be directed (hey, if we can figure out how to amp them then we've probably already conquered the containment/reflection/refraction of them). For lower powers, these directed emissions could be employed for tasks like antigrav (VTOL), tractoring, shield confinement fields, etc.

---

Short and simple: what is the "Guardian" field I keep reading about? Didn't see it in manual, but from descriptions I assume it is like the ST "inertial dampening system" that prevents our crew from turning into chunky salsa during maneuvers?

Inertia is the reason why there's an "m" in "F=ma" (force = mass X acceleration). AFAIK, science today still has no strong theories about what inertia is or where it comes from. At best it's described as a property of mass that is proportional to the mass, but that doesn't explain why larger masses have larger inertia and how it resists changes in motion. That being the case, and if the Guardian field really is the inertial dampers, any theories on how the Guardian device works would be pure speculation.

[ 04-23-2001: Message edited by: Joel Schultz ]

[Cmdr Nova]

The Guardian Field keeps the ship and the crew safe from harm.

It has 2 components: The SIF (Structural Integrity Field), and the Inertial Compensator. The SIF keeps the ship from exploding/imploding in certain conditions (system malfunction, superhigh gravity, some explosion/implosion circumstances (i.e. air pressure inside ship vs. vacuum of space effect), hyperspace and others). Also, it keeps it from going into strange twisted shapes while at super high speeds.

The Inertial Compensator keeps the crew from feeling those same effects of high speed and inertia. (which is pretty much what you said)

Ben Somerset explained it to me like this (Into The Fire, Act 4, Page 1):

quote:

---

Cmdr Nova,

The SIF (Structural Integrity Field) is what holds the ship together when making high speed transits. A ship entering hyperspace goes from 0 to extreme speed in a few microseconds. Under normal circumstances, this would immediately turn the ship into something like a deflated ballon. The SIF is designed to hold the ships structure together, so this doesn't happen.

Working in concert with the SIF would be the inertial compensator. While the SIF holds the ship together, the inertial compensator keeps the crew from being turned into salsa on the nearest aft bulkhead when a stressful transit (through hyperspace, jumpgate, or wormhole) occurs.

None of the components (specifically) isn't mentioned in the BC parts list IFAIK, so I assume (which can be bad ) that both are part of the "Guardian Field" that protects the ship. But IMO they should be referred to seperately, since they do different jobs, even if they are part of the same system. Just my $0.02 on the matter.

---

[Sunanta]

Regarding the inertial dampening Guardian field:

First, note that we will be severely restricting our discussion about the nature of hyperdrives by accepting it unconditionally regarding the hyperdrive.

OK. This device would be very useful for sublight travel, for it would enable your crew to survive sudden accelerations and deccelerations without becoming stains on your ship's walls. This device would also, unfortunately, remove certain hyperspace theories from consideration, such as the warping of spacetime (this would be achieved by expanding the space behind you while squeezing the space ahead of you- while not taking place in hyperspace, this might be considered a hyperspace effect), or the artificial wormhole concept. A field might be necessary to alleviate stress caused by the singularity that would normally stretch your ship and crew into a noodle (and then some). This isn't related to inertia, though, so I don't see how an inertial damper would help with that. It would also call into question the ideas of both fully and partially entering hyperspace. If there is no time in hyperspace, then any adverse affects would not affect your crew if you fully enter it, for inertial effects require time. This field might work with the "part in, part out" idea, though, since inertial effects might occur, since you would still be partially 'submerged' in normal spacetime.

[Guest Shingen]

I might be way off the mark here, but I remembering reading a book called The Holographic Universe (I don't remember the author) ...but anyway, in the book it said that there was some guy (maybe Bohr, or someone else) that found that atomic particles have both a wave form and a particleform and when they have this 'particle' form, they can move from point A to point B without moving through the space in-between. Noboby knows how they move without effecting 'space', but maybe the hyper-drive converts the craft into a form of energy that have these attributes. Has anyone heard/considered this?

..and what about the 'space-folding' theory? Has this already been covered?

Just a few random ravings I thought I'd throw into the mix..

[Joel Schultz]

Shingen,

What you refer to is a particularly interesting aspect of quantum physics. On that scale, particles can behave as waves. They can literally go from A to B without going in between. It may have something to do with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Quantum effects however only seem to operate on an atomic level or smaller, though, not on the macroscopic world of our crusiers, so don't necessarily look there for an explanation of hyperspace. In fact, reconciling the differences expected by quantum physics and general relativity is one of the major open questions in cosmology right now.

Speaking of which, has anyone read up on Zero-Point Field hypothesis? Although still tentative at this point, it's yielded some interesting results like unifying gravity and electromagnitism and offering a DERIVATION of F=ma (force = mass X acceleration) from electromagetic equations by Maxwell. This is interesting because F=ma is treated as a "postulate" or "given-without-proof" in physics, much like mathematics treats as given-without-proof that 1=1. By offering a derivation, it implies that inertia is something matter/energy acquires from its interaction with a zero-point field -- the field resists accelerations within it, offering more resistance to larger quantities of matter/energy -- and that it can be controlled.

Why do I bring this up? Well, if we ASSUME ZPF is true (and why not; this is sci-fi) it means that a) gravity could be controllable through electromagnetic means and the same goes for inertia. Hence, we have a basis for being able to produce/control gravity without lugging around a lot of mass and also a way for our inertial dampeners to nullify the effects of ship accelerations within the ship structure.

[Joel Schultz]

Shingen,

What you refer to is a particularly interesting aspect of quantum physics. On that scale, particles can behave as waves. They can literally go from A to B without going in between. It may have something to do with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Quantum effects however only seem to operate on an atomic level or smaller, though, not on the macroscopic world of our crusiers, so don't necessarily look there for an explanation of hyperspace. In fact, reconciling the differences expected by quantum physics and general relativity is one of the major open questions in cosmology right now.

Speaking of which, has anyone read up on Zero-Point Field hypothesis? Although still tentative at this point, it's yielded some interesting results like unifying gravity and electromagnitism and offering a DERIVATION of F=ma (force = mass X acceleration) from electromagetic equations by Maxwell. This is interesting because F=ma is treated as a "postulate" or "given-without-proof" in physics, much like mathematics treats as given-without-proof that 1=1. By offering a derivation, it implies that inertia is something matter/energy acquires from its interaction with a zero-point field -- the field resists accelerations within it, offering more resistance to larger quantities of matter/energy -- and that it can be controlled.

Why do I bring this up? Well, if we ASSUME ZPF is true (and why not; this is sci-fi) it means that a) gravity could be controllable through electromagnetic means and the same goes for inertia. Hence, we have a basis for being able to produce/control gravity without lugging around a lot of mass and also a way for our inertial dampeners to nullify the effects of ship accelerations within the ship structure.

[Joel Schultz]

Shingen,

What you refer to is a particularly interesting aspect of quantum physics. On that scale, particles can behave as waves. They can literally go from A to B without going in between. It may have something to do with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.

Quantum effects however only seem to operate on an atomic level or smaller, not on the macroscopic world of our crusiers, so don't necessarily look there for an explanation of hyperspace. In fact, reconciling the differences between quantum physics (which works on the very small end of the size spectrum) and general relativity (which works on the large end) is one of the major open questions in cosmology right now.

Speaking of which, has anyone read up on Zero-Point Field hypothesis? Although still tentative at this point, it's yielded some interesting results like unifying gravity and electromagnitism and offering a DERIVATION of F=ma (force = mass X acceleration - a larger force is required to accelerate a more massive object) from electromagetic equations by Maxwell. This is interesting because F=ma is treated as a "postulate" or "given-without-proof" in physics, much like mathematics treats as given-without-proof that 1=1. By offering a derivation of it, it implies that inertia (the reason for the "m" in F=ma) is something matter/energy acquires from its interaction with a zero-point field -- the field resists accelerations within it, offering more resistance to larger quantities of matter/energy -- and that it can be controlled.

Why do I bring this up? Well, if we ASSUME ZPF is true (and why not; this is sci-fi) it means that a) gravity could be controllable through electromagnetic means and the same goes for inertia. Hence, we have a basis for being able to produce/control gravity without lugging around a lot of mass and also a way for our inertial dampeners to nullify the effects of ship accelerations within the ship structure.