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New Debate :Israel vs Palestine/Arab States

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heck id live in canada if I could. but im stuck in florida dangit

The UN doesnt work because no nation is willing to make it work as it was chartered to work. If the UN had its own armed forces things would be a lot different

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Sorry Kush,

But your government has a bunch of control freaks at the helm. They want to control what you do, how you do it, where you do it and how often you do it.

Then they tax the hell out of you in order to make sure that control stays in place, if you're an indepndent business owner, forget about it. You'll be lucky to see 40% of your profit, if that. Why risk anything if the government is just going to take it from you.

Also, gun control, if I get caught with a gun in Canada, whoo doggy, off to jail with you. At least in the US I am allowed to defend myself, I am just a sheep to the slaughter in Canada, although California is much the same way, I will admit, but I don't go there if I can help it either.

Socialists make me crazy, I hate socialism, and Canada is an experiment in socialism just waiting to explode, or implode, however you look at such things.

And Tac, what is this garbage about the UN having it's own armed forces? What? are you really that crazy. Kofi Annan in control of an armed force with Nuclear weapons, my idea of a nightmare if I ever heard one. GEEZ!!!

Sorry guys, but I haven't a clue where you got such crazy ideas, but I'm sure glad that a majority in this country don't hold your views. It's quite a relief to say the least.

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quote:

Socialists make me crazy, I hate socialism, and Canada is an experiment in socialism just waiting to explode, or implode, however you look at such things.

I donÔÇÖt know about Canada imploding, though it is defiantly heading in that direction, but I do agree with your sentiments about socialism. Sure, some socialism is good, no, say necessary for a healthy economy, but Canada went way overboard with it. I know that the last thing I want is to have to pay so that some shit can live a miserable, but not quite unbearable, life without working, especially if its some damn immigrant who is doing nothing but putting a strain on out economy. I'm not saying that immigrants are all bad, but we have enough useless population already, there is no need to IMPORT social leeches. Anyway, socialism leads people who are otherwise able to work to be lazy and then to EXPECT government money as if itÔÇÖs automatically thereÔÇÖs (and then, of course, we let the damn leeches vote so the politicians have to keep them happy to get reelected).

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quote:

But your government has a bunch of control freaks at the helm. They want to control what you do, how you do it, where you do it and how often you do it.


If that's not the pot calling the kettle black...

We all have our problems...and I have my mine but come on...Canada is...well....Canada. One day we're gonna run out of trees and then we're gonna have to annex them...so lets be friends heh heh....

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Canada isn't going to implode anytime soon. We're doing just fine.

And we already tussle over soft wood lumber all the time. Let us keep our lumber and we'll give you Celine Dion. That's a fair trade I think.

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quote:

Let us keep our lumber and we'll give you Celine Dion

If you're giving away female singer / songwriters, can I have Nelly Furtado please?

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No thanks, I really wanna get my hands on one of those Furtados if you don't mind (Huh, don't we all?)

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quote:

Originally posted by Paddy Gregory:

quote:

Let us keep our lumber and we'll give you Celine Dion

If you're giving away female singer / songwriters, can I have Nelly Furtado please?


i'll take Britney Spears any OTHER day.

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quote:

Originally posted by Commander Elio Jason:

quote:

Originally posted by Paddy Gregory:

quote:

Let us keep our lumber and we'll give you Celine Dion

If you're giving away female singer / songwriters, can I have Nelly Furtado please?


i'll take Britney Spears any OTHER day.
Why any other day? I would take her everyday.

[ 05-06-2002, 17:42: Message edited by: Soback ]

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Back on topic...

Arafat lies about his birthplace, by Danny Rubenstein.

Excerpt:

quote:

...It seems that during Arafat's early years as a PLO activist, he found it a great drawback to have been born in Egypt, in a foreign country, and not in the Palestinian homeland.

His friends also found it strange. Many of the young Arabs who volunteered to serve the PLO immediately after the Six-Day War noted with astonishment that their leader, whom they were meeting for the first time, spoke Arabic with an Egyptian accent. Arabs from Middle Eastern countries can easily recognize the country of origin of any other Arab they meet by his accent - and here the man who claimed to be a warrior representing and leading the Palestinian people spoke with an Egyptian accent...

...Arafat was aware of all this. He understood that it would be better for whoever wanted to lead the Palestinian nationalistic struggle if his biography stated that he was born in Palestine, and there is no better birthplace than the Old City of Jerusalem, in a house adjacent to the Al Aqsa mosque.

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quote:

Originally posted by Menchise:

*sigh* Here I go again.

Cultural diversity, by definition, is not about replacing one culture with another.

It's about having many cultures that interact with each other, thus forming new ideas from the best of each and enriching the general social being.

Yes, but of course in dealing with a nation's cultural identity, there are some things that can't change that have been grounded in tradition. The constitution, the primacy of the English language, etc.

quote:

Cultural hegemony, the assimilation of all cultures into one dominant culture, narrows the plain of thought and stagnates the general social being.

Now, I believe in the system the US used until about 1950, whatever you want to define that as. People came, they joined the culture, brought their gifts and talents, made life better, and that's it. I don't buy into the bilingual BS that's being taught. LEARN TO SPEAK THE LANGUAGE OF ENGLISH.

As for cultural hedgemony, I don't really see the problem with it. Sure, your rhetoric is nice about "narrowing the plain of thought and stagnating the social well being", but what exactly are you babbling about?

Lets say the United States stopped immigration for about 50 years. That isn't going to ruin the country. 100 years? Still not going to ruin it. Look at some countries that don't allow immigration, the country doesn't get bad or boring because of it, and the "social well being" isn't hurt any, at least if the people like their culture.

Now some cultures, that are already bad by focusing on oppression, death, killing, etc, might not get any better. That's why cultural hedgemony is good. Some cultures are better than others, just like some people are more useful to society than others. A F-15 pilot and Derek Smart are both more important than some leech that's been on welfare for the past 10 years and will be on welfare for the rest of his/her life. The culture of the United States is more important than the culture of cannibal tribes in some south pacific island. The United States culture SHOULD assimilate cultures, like they have in the past, to make life better for everyone involved.

Now, relating this to the topic, the Palestinians need to learn to put up with their country and it's government or leave. As i've already advocated, the best thing they can do is STOP the suicide bombings, and carry out protests like during the US civil rights movement against whatever intrinsic injustices there are in the government. Short of that, they should be assimilated or shot.

quote:

Language is much more than a method of communication: it's also the method of organizing the expression of thought. One of the reasons why English speaking people initially had great difficulty translating German was because Germans spoke dialectically. It was this method of communication that enabled great thinkers such as Hegel and Kant to develop new philosophical methodologies and ideas that weren't even imagined by other cultures.

That's nice. Let them STAY in Germany. Don't let them move to America and spread a bunch of BS about how "German should be accepted as a common language in America". If your going to live in America, speak English unless your talking to your German friends.

quote:

While I agree that basic social cohesion demands that a standard communication method be in use on practical terms (since it takes years to learn a second language), it is also important not to discount the role of language in cultural interaction.

Language is one of those issue that I spoke about earlier that should NOT change because of immigration or cultural merging.

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Guest

They ought to tear that entire building down around his little terrorist ears. Then maybe peace between the "palestinians" and Israel can actually get moving.

I hope they bring that building down and crush that little terrorist Arafat into the slime that he is.

As long as he is in charge, Israeli's will die in terrorist attacks, once he is dead and the "palestinians" can vote in a real leader, then we can talk about peace.

In essence, YO ISRAEL, KILL THE SOB!!!

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quote:

Suicide bombers are the most destructive weapons that they have (they don't have armoured vehicles or aircraft). If killing a civilian with a bomb attached to someone's chest is terrorism, then killing a civilian with a rocket fired from a helicopter 1000 feet away is also terrorism. Terrorism is defined by the outcome of its action, not by the weapon that is used.


-Menchise

just one second there...the law examines the "intention" of persons at the time. And law is built on morality...(thou shalt not kill etc..you get the idea)

terrorism cannot be defined by an outcome of an action.

Suicide bombers purposely target civillians and civillian areas....and the areas where civillians gather; supermarkets...bus stops...etc etc...

Israel has never waged war on civillians. They don't send rockets into hotels...or rockets at a bus stop where Palestinians are gathered.

A suicide bomber and a stray missle cannot be compared.

The Palestinians should send their "bombers" after soldiers...and military bases.

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I've always liked Israel. They deal with Palestinian terrorists armed with everything from assault rifles to explosives and it's not unheard of for ordinary citizens to shoot those bastards dead. It almost makes me embarassed to think that terrorists can come over here with nothing but box cutters and kill 5000 people because the American citizens are taught to protect themselves with restraining orders and 9-1-1 calls.

Honestly, I don't think you can compare the military actions taken by Israel against radical Palestinian groups to the terrorist actions that those groups initiate against the Israelis. The IDF might kill civilians, but they don't set out to do it intentionally, where as the radical PLO groups specifically target civilian targets, even school children. Then again, I don't think I'd personally loose any sleep if Israeli F-16s where to drop napalm on Palestinian settlements, anyways. Really, those are the same people I remember seeing dancing in streets on CNN just over a year ago inbetween footage of Boeings slamming into the WTC.

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quote:

Originally posted by Litvyak:

Then again, I don't think I'd personally loose any sleep if Israeli F-16s where to drop napalm on Palestinian settlements, anyways. Really, those are the same people I remember seeing dancing in streets on CNN just over a year ago inbetween footage of Boeings slamming into the WTC.

The funny thing is that after that footage, the media said it was taken out of context. Sorry for resorting to stereotyping liberals, but think the people in charge didn't like the idea that maybe we should sympathize with Israel?

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Sterotype:

A conventional, formulaic, and oversimplified conception, opinion, or image.

It's ok....I sort of accept the above as SOP for the ultra conservative elements around these parts.

The world's debt has been paid. We need to affect a lasting peace. If both sides have to swallow a bit of crap then so be it.

Compromise is never easy.

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When the "palestinians" quit blowing up Israeli civilians and grow up, then we will talk about compromise. Until then, they can all rot for all I care.

If Israel fried every single one of them, I would not lose any sleep over it.

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They are just "animals" anyway right Jag

Did you say you believed in Constitutional National Socialism.....? Was that it?

[ 09-27-2002, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

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People that blow up civilians as a political statement and then celebrate it ar exactly that.

ANIMALS

And deserve treatment that shows that fact.

When they wish to be civilized and quit blowing up innocent men, women, and children, then we can talk about it. Until then, they are getting just what they asked for.

I am a constitutionalist and USA first, ABOVE ALL ELSE.

I am a patriot, I believe in the constitution and the bill of rights.

THe president is doing exactly what the constitution allows him to do, and that is protect the national interest in a time of war.

Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, he pays terrorists for terrorist acts, he is building and has WMD, and will use them if he feels he can.

Saddam must be taken out for our security and those of our allies.

I believe in the use of force when necessary, and it is very necessary for it to be used against Iraq.

I am not willing to wait for another 911 to stop such people.

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quote:

And deserve treatment that shows that fact.


Nobody deserves that....not in the tallest of buildings or the poorest of shacks....

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quote:

Nobody deserves that....not in the tallest of buildings or the poorest of shacks....

Really, let's see you say that when some terrorist comes in takes out a member of your family. What? You will tell him that it is all a misunderstanding?

Sorry Lothar, but your pacifist ways has gotten Israel to this point, and until the Palestinians are dealt with in a forceful manner, they will continue to do what they are doing.

THe Palestinians MAIN goal is the destruction of Israel, it is them vs Israel. Well, then Israel needs to take them out, pure and simple.

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