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Supreme Cmdr

BCM Demo - What I think!

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Yahoo! Yippee! After months of watching and lurking (and finally getting that BCM capable comp) I finally have The Demo!

It's great! Every part of it! I really like the special effects. Especially the wormhole animation! (When coupled with the music that wormhole animation has quite a psychedelic effect...)

I love the music. I never get tired of it. It really sets the mood well. 10 out of 10 for me. In my opinion, BCM's music fits better with BCM than any other game's music fits with its game.

The beam weapons look great!

I love the way they "slice" through the target! ( SC must have a special love for the color orange. First the PAD artifact from BC3K, now the PTA in BCM... biggrin.gif But if he'd made them plaid it would have been worth it just to have the beam weapons smile.gif )

But my number one favorite feature?

NO MORE LUDICROUS SPEED! Muahahahaha! cwm4.gif

P.S.

You know, spending twelve hours in front of a computer screen (just because you HAD to have the HC demo) watching each kilobyte tick by CAN'T be good for a person's mental state... Especially when said person is waiting on the demo of the best game ever conceived wink.gif

P.P.S.

EDIT-

DOH! *smacks forehead* I've been reading these forums for too long. I know better than to make suggestions in the wrong forum. smile.gif

[This message has been edited by MerfGlurf (edited 03-19-2001).]

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This is probably one of the few things I feel safe in answering smile.gif

quote:


1. Mix turn based and realtime. Be nice if within a minute the game would safely pause for 10 or so seconds, giving you a chance to give your orders for repairs, and such. Kind of a mix between real time and turn based for the multiplayer arena. Seems like something worth investigating if it were possible, dont know any games that tried it.

No, Think how annoying it would be to have a Sim pause every few seconds just because some one wanted to check his damage status. If you want an idea of how it is, play SW Rebellion/Supremacy with someone that pauses and unpauses the battles to check ship status. Gets old REAL quick. This game is a Simulation, in real life the battle doesn't stop for field repairs. Just like in real life this game shouldn't stop for field repairs.

------------------

Commodore Kyle Antilles

ICV-Eclipse, Destiny Starstation (Nevuela)

Commanding Officer, Destiny

Spectre Fleet

External Beta Tester

Battlecruiser Millennium

"You can only love or hate something you truly understand"

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Downloaded and tried it yesterday. I was completely floored! I was running it on my old 266, and it ran just fine. Got a little choppy when the ships started to blow, but that was expected. The only downside is that it's sitting on my system. My system is approximately two and a half hours away from me, and I won't be able to get to it for two weeks. frown.gif None of the systems I will have access to will be suitable to play it on, and I'd be trying to download the demo via 33.6. Not acceptable. Means I have to wait two weeks to play around some more.

Talk about cruel smile.gif

------------------

Commander David Foss

GCV - Deterrence, Orion Starstation (CENTRIS)

Wing Leader, Deterrence Battle Group

www.orion-hq.fsnet.co.uk

'This far, no farther!'

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Guest Stalax

I recently downloaded this demo (word of this games merits have reached far) and I think it is a wonderful game. The way you have stayed to your vision is remarkable. The game as a whole, is astonishing. I've seen games come and go, and most of them never stay true to their initial vision, and that is your most endearing aspect, the way that you made this game for yourself, a gamer. It's almost hard to come up with words for what it's like to see a game that really fulfills it's promise unlike so many other games that hype and hype and hype until the finished product is nothing like what we expected (*cough* blizzard *cough)

As an aspiring game developer, I It's very reasurring to see the gaming equvalent of an indie film end up so well. I think I'll go buy a copy of BC3000AD 2.0 and see what that's like...

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The business about the craft stopping on a dime was something I decided to leave in to simulated computer assisted control..sans the frustration.

There are no planets to deploy the marines on, in the E1 demo - but they are prepped for combat, so they can take on any intruders that show up on your ship.

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OK Gents. I've seen someone asking for flight sticks that work! I personally am attempting to program my Cyborg 3D Gold Stick to accomodate Twist rolls and the throttle already works. Now if I can get some of you PROFESSIONAL Stick Grinders out ther to get to work on your stick models, we can gather them in one place and share with the rest of the BC Community. What ya think Guys and Gals?

Thanks,

Uncle Rattler

------------------

Insurgent One, Rattler

ICV Necromancer, Spectre HQ (Antis)

Commander-In-Chief,

Insurgency

Official Tester, Battlecruiser Series

[email protected]

ICQ 12894104

"You can only love or hate something you truly understand"

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My CH CombatStick is behaving nicely in the demo so far, including the throttle slider. I'll post my success or failure with button mappings.

~Pioneer

------------------

Commander Pioneer

ICV-Striker, Spectre (Antis)

Spectre Fleet

"If you're thinking about losing, you're already dead."

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Saitek X36 USB -the caddie of DeD inplimentation biggrin.gif

TTFN

------------------

Rear Admiral Gallion

ICV-Graf Spee, Spectre (Antis)

Executive Officer, Spectre Fleet

"You can only love or hate something you truly understand."

Official Tester, Battlecruiser Series

Leader, Team 1

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Guest dnoyeB!

quote:

No, Think how annoying it would be to have a Sim pause every few seconds just because some one wanted to check his damage status. If you want an idea of how it is, play SW Rebellion/Supremacy with someone that pauses and unpauses the battles to check ship status. Gets old REAL quick. This game is a Simulation, in real life the battle doesn't stop for field repairs. Just like in real life this game shouldn't stop for field repairs.


I can think of how annoying that would be. Thats why I would never suggest that smile.gif What Im speaking of is a predetermined number of pauses per minute. Uncontrollable. I dont know how it would work. Thats why I put investigate. I dont like slow play. Nor do I like being able to ignore the values in more time more strategy. Its in there somewhere.

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Guest dnoyeB!

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

The business about the craft stopping on a dime was something I decided to leave in to simulated computer assisted control..sans the frustration.


This is what I was figuring. Maybe you could bake that 2nd flight model into the auto pilot somehow. 0 autopilot give that free floating uncontrollable "Jane stop this thing" effect. 1 autopilot is as it flys now. And of course full autopilot, self-explanatory.

I probably thought of that because I don't yet know what the different levels of autopilot are in the demo. new guy here...

I keep forgetting to say this game is rockin. So much so that I got a copy of 3K on order from yahoo shops. Plus I just loaded the 3K demo just a while ago. Trying to get some pre-training.

[This message has been edited by dnoyeB! (edited 03-19-2001).]

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dnoyeB!:

quote:


What Im speaking of is a predetermined number of pauses per minute. Uncontrollable. I dont know how it would work. Thats why I put investigate. I dont like slow play. Nor do I like being able to ignore the values in more time more strategy. Its in there somewhere.

The answer is still no, it's called "A Derek Smart simulation" not "A Derek Smart Turn Based Strategy" game. In RL, everyone doesn't fire a volly the pause to assess damage and wait for the enemies turn. The time to plan and examine data is before the battle, and no plan survives contact. Learn which systems are more important and repair them first. If you have to cloak and retreat to get time to think.

------------------

Commodore Kyle Antilles

ICV-Eclipse, Destiny Starstation (Nevuela)

Commanding Officer, Destiny

Spectre Fleet

External Beta Tester

Battlecruiser Millennium

"You can only love or hate something you truly understand"

[This message has been edited by Eclipse (edited 03-19-2001).]

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I for one am glad to see that everything is now done in realtime. It makes everything so much more realistic and once again adds strategy. I remember with BC3K when docking at a station your crew would be rested and repairs finished instantly. Now I find myself shifting personel and after barely surviving a battle I had to choose wich systems to repair first. Good stuff biggrin.gif

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Hey, something have just occurred to me. The realistic flight dynamics are not needed in BC:M and thanks to Derek for standing strong and not changing the game for every whim of his fans. Imagine having the directional thrusters of your ship being damaged, or something else that controls the speed or directional change of your ship, since repairs are made in real life time, imagine having to defend yourself while your ship is pulling to the right all the time and while your throttle is stuck in reverse and it will take 2 hours to replace the damaged component, or having that massive battlecruiser be cloaked, move in next to the station right before decloaking and attacking it, and have it smash into the station because you didn't decrase the throttle and account for inertia. THANK YOU DEREK for standing firm and for knowing whats good for your game. Forget the noncence about the interface, it's wonderful, the music rocks, literally, the gameplay, can't say much there, it's the best not even comparable to anything else because there's nothing to compare it to. Just finish the game, make it bug free, and release it. Obviously there's such a thing as too much good stuff and BC:M is just right.

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Now I'll admit I'm a newcommer to the Battecruiser series, although I'm a diehard Elite/Frontier/First Encounters fan. So far, I have no clue what I'm doing in the game, but I'm reading up whenever I'm not preocupied playing Darkspace.

On Music: The guitar solo in the main menu really gets on my nerves. But I hate guitars. Its just my pet peeve. However, I LOVE the piano music in-game. It sort of helps set that "epic expanse" tone. The guitar music... well, it sounds 80s retro. Like it belongs in a Battlestar Galactica remake *shrug*

On Icons: I absolutely hate the icons. For me, they are a gross distraction. I just cant imagine a 30th century Battecruiser (Im just using an imaginary date, here. Since I'm understudied at the moment) running off Windows. They're fine for learning purposes, but there should definately be a text-only option somewhere. While the icons make it seem more like a game, text is more for the sim-oriented folk (Like m'self).

On Flight Model: I'm obsesive when it comes to realism in games. Independence War was a godsend in the days I still had a Monster 3D on my rig (I can only hope that Nvidia adds Glide support to their drivers soon). I'd love to have a more realistic flight model (A la I-War or Allegiance) as an option. At the moment, it feels more like X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter or Tachyon: The Fringe than than a true space-sim. I sincerely hope a more realistic flight model will be incorporated either pre, or post release.

BTW, what is GCO?????????

------------------

-The Scrivener-

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Realistic flight dynamics would only make this already incredibly promising game THAT much better. I only wish the game could do what Soback just described. That would be incredible. Manual docking would be much better with straffing capability in at least 4 directions. However I don't think I would go as far as to make a maneuvering thruster get stuck in the ON position if damaged. I would just have it less powerfull or disabled.

I was really impressed with the Allegiance flight model. Performing straffing runs in fighters on a cruiser was just incredible. Note that system is not 100% realistic either it's more of a blend of the 2.

I would really love to see something simular for space combat and maneuvering in BCM but at the same time I would also like a realistic atmospheric flight model. Imagine if this game had both? biggrin.gif Now that would be something to write home about.

As far as the current flight model goes I think collision detection and physics needs a little work. Objects seem to "bounce" around when colliding or being hit by weapons at low speeds (Note this is beta and expected). It's kinda hard for me to put into words. I have also seen AI ships clip right through stations.

As much as I love Newtonian physics in my space games I would be willing to put that all aside for BCM as long as they get rid of stopping on a dime.

I don't think you should be able to stop on a dime in space or in an atmosphere for that matter in any kind of vehicle unless your moving slow. You should have to use some energy to slow yourself down or else a gradual decline in speed. It's just too easy to fly in at full speed and stop then get on top of your target.

Thinking about it a little more has me saying well maybe this is some kind of advanced technology that allows these ships to stop instantly. Anything is possible. It would be cool if some races had this technology innately where others would have to upgrade their ships in order to do it. Hrmmm smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Kurt Meyer (edited 03-20-2001).]

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hehe I was just playing the demo again and you know what I REALLY love about this game... The scale of the ships and stations is amazing. Also the spaceships and station models are incredible. The artwork on the skins is also really good.

Just curious will the full game ship with some higher detail textures or texture settings or is what we see in the demo the same as the full game. This 64MB video card is spoiling me =) Bring on the 128MB Geforce 3's.

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Guest Steel Rockhard

First a quote from D.S's latest soapbox:

"If good ol' [Joe Gamer] had any common sense, he won't buy a single game, regardless of who wrote it, without first playing a demo based on the Gold code."

My questions:

If I were to buy BC:M based on the demo, does this mean I have no common sense? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the BC:M demo based on *Beta* code?

I'm confused. It's not just the above that has me scratching under my beanie...

If a demo is supposed to give you a taste of the final product, does the BC:M demo REALLY do the game justice? To new folks? To an existing fan base? Wouldn't a training mission, released first, with combat missions to follow, have made a bit more sense? What's the logic in releasing a demo that is just about guaranteed to alienate newbies even if it satisfies *most* of an existing following?

I ask the above questions because I've been following the progress of BC:M for some time, eagerly awaiting a demo and, frankly, was a bit shocked by what I got. In my case, I feel the demo did more harm than good. It demonstrated all the obvious weaknesses without making the strengths nearly as clear. My marketing skills are rusty but I'm pretty sure this is THE LAST thing you want to do with a product demo.

Yesterday I was excited about BC:M, today I played the demo, tomorrow I'll be looking for something like BC:M to play... but not BC:M. This can't be what 3000AD had in mind. Note: I (as I'm sure a lot of folks) did the same thing with Daikatana. The comparison works for me even if it doesn't for you.

BTW, I did read all the docs and configure all as required and had little trouble getting the game running... long enough to get a decidedly 'technology test' feel from the experience. I was expecting a bit more polish, I guess.

Sad but true, I can't help but ask myself if downloading another demo to experience the "ground breaking" terrain engine (Which I am now more than a bit suspect of) would be worth my time.

Also... please don't write me off as a 'Joe Gamer without a clue' or respond with a 'Fine. Don't buy the game then.' as I have noticed seems to happen all too often when BC is the subject. My post on this board is an attempt at sharing disappointment and honest confusion with the hope that any further posts relating to this one might put a little wind back in my sails.

BC:M *sounds* like a game I'd love to play but after my experience with the demo I see no proof.

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At first I was skeptical too. I still beleive firmly in releasing demos on "final" code or "gold" code as some put it. However since each demo episode is current with the beta testers it will eventually evolve into gold code and after we get each new episode our code is updated to the most recent build. Definantly an interesting public approach and I am glad Derek decided to do it this way because I get a chance to look at whats been done and offer feedback. An in game tutorial would definantly help with the learning curve though, especially with the retail release. I wouldn't know where to begin making a tutorial for this though because there is so much content. It would definantly take some time.

To me this is more of a technology demo at this point (That will change as more content is added and the code updated) but I am really enjoying it and the game does look very promising. Hopefully some of the feedback generated will only make this game better in the long run. In the end we will definantly have a very LARGE demo full of content based on gold code. biggrin.gif

I haven't even tried to pass the second mission because I am still experimenting with the first one. I still don't feel I can walk away and say I have learned everything there is to learn in that instant action mission and thats just a fraction of what lies ahead. It is slightly different every time I play it.

As for the tutorial well... Sure it does not popup messages and ask you to hit keys etc etc do this do that etc etc but the game is not even finished. Maybe once it's closer to completion they will drop in a tutorial or as priority permits. For now playing the demo in scenarios does make learning the fundamentals easier for me and I am by no means a seasoned BC3K player. For now play each instant mission to death and enjoy it for what it is. It's only going to get better.

[This message has been edited by Kurt Meyer (edited 03-20-2001).]

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I think I don't have much to add to what Kurt just said and the rest is NDA cwm1.gif but I've been with these series since '97 and still learning and enjoying every minute of it.

It's not the game that you can learn by tutorial missions 'cause there should be about hundred of them to teach you how to even scratch a surface of this game.

The mission is the same as with the true life: Just explore, explore, explore and have fun

------------------

Cmdr Jason Cloud

GCV Silver Lining, GENESIS (Moon)

26 Squadron Commander,

Prime fleet, Gamma Wing, 2nd squadron

External Beta Tester

Battlecruiser Millennium

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Ah, finally got the HC demo.

First impresssions:

Well, Installshield did upgrade itself, forcing the reboot, during which my system hung (I think I have a system instability related either to my Santa Cruz sound card or else an undervoltage problem, this happens far too often).

Looked at some of the documentation. Whoever drew the new Galaxy Map did an A+++ job of it.

Read the FAQ, decided since I have a Radeon 32DDR I'd try not disabling fast AGP in the BIOS to see what happened (BCM worked anyway smile.gif) -- I always read the directions and then try to see if I can get it to work my way anyway cwm4.gif

Saw the 3000AD company logo animation. OK -- maybe its time 3000AD got a new logo video (something more flashy or in 3D, old one looks good for BC3K but BCM is special). But who cares, anyway? I jumped into first scenario.

Cool! Ship handling way different than it was. Hyperjumps took time -- a chance to think about what I was doing next. Graphics were about what I expected. Several magnitudes better than BC3K, but definitely not "bleeding edge" bells'n'whistles. That's not to say the ship models were bad, they were excellent, very detailed. And there's more models yet to come, plus the terrain engine... So I can't pass any final judgements yet.

Of course, the scale between the models (e.g. spacetrooper vs station) puts Freespace (which vaunted its scale between figher/capital ships) to shame smile.gif The cloaking effect seen from outside was cool to watch. I ended up getting into a fight with some Gams, and put the whole thing on AI control and watched it play out on an outside camera. Very nice job, especially the DED when the Gam cruiser blew up.

Then I got boarded by 10 intruders, who overpowered my marines (two were flying around in a shuttle, and two were injured and in Medibay, which left 6 to deal with them). Ouch. Lost my officers quarters, then recalled someone saying that stations will help round up intruders so started to make my way over to Alderon.

At that point, my machine froze up frown.gif I'm guessing it was the sound card drivers again. It's running on beta drivers (actually, so is my video card) because the betas address various problems I have on my machine. And yes, I am aware of the numerous warnings by SC to use OFFICIAL drivers, but as I said -- I like to see how far I can push things. Besides, I've seen this freezeup occur in things other than the BCM demo too, just not as often since I got the beta.

So I rebooted and tried the Gam scenario w/ fleet C&C. Cool to have my own battle group, ended up slugging things out with some raiders, but couldn't find my objective, that station or whatever I was supposed to blow up. Where was it anyway? At any rate, it was late so I decided to call it a day.

------------------

Cmdr Alan Mach

GCV Cavanagh

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quote:

Originally posted by Joel Schultz:

So I rebooted and tried the Gam scenario w/ fleet C&C. Cool to have my own battle group, ended up slugging things out with some raiders, but couldn't find my objective, that station or whatever I was supposed to blow up. Where was it anyway? At any rate, it was late so I decided to call it a day.

By any chance did you visit Trion? wink.gif

------------------

Commander Tyrn Marcel

GCV Falcon, Wraith HQ (Lyrius)

Wing Leader - Wraith Fleet/S.O.G.

Hard, Fast, Furious... FIRST!

Official BCM Beta Tester Team-5 Co-Leader

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quote:


I ask the above questions because I've been following the progress of BC:M for some time, eagerly awaiting a demo and, frankly, was a bit shocked by what I got. In my case, I feel the demo did more harm than good. It demonstrated all the obvious weaknesses without making the strengths nearly as clear. My marketing skills are rusty but I'm pretty sure this is THE LAST thing you want to do with a product demo.

Yesterday I was excited about BC:M, today I played the demo, tomorrow I'll be looking for something like BC:M to play... but not BC:M. This can't be what 3000AD had in mind. Note: I (as I'm sure a lot of folks) did the same thing with Daikatana. The comparison works for me even if it doesn't for you.


So the demo DID do something. Saved you some money. I'd rather you didn't buy the game, than have you buy the game and complain about it. Thats always the issues I try to avoid and is the primary reason I am releasing the demo in episodes.

Whats curious to me is that, you took the time to write that lengthy response, without saying WHAT was wrong with the demo. Oh well. I guess some things are more important than others.

...and comparing BCM demo to Daikatana is just laughable.

Now. If you were expecting any other response, I'm sorry to disappoint you. At the end of the day, its my game and its your money. As a gamer, you have a choice. Use it.

Good luck finding a game like BCM. You're going to need it.

TTFN

[This message has been edited by Supreme Cmdr (edited 03-20-2001).]

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quote:


By any chance did you visit Trion?

Why no I didn't...I was attracted to the big swirling red thingy and jumped through that instead smile.gif Oooo...pretty...

BTW -- is the red swirlie a wormhole and green swirlie a flux-field or is it the other way around?

------------------

Cmdr Alan Mach

GCV Cavanagh

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quote:

Originally posted by Joel Schultz:

Why no I didn't...I was attracted to the big swirling red thingy and jumped through that instead
smile.gif
Oooo...pretty...

BTW -- is the red swirlie a wormhole and green swirlie a flux-field or is it the other way around?

Red: Wormhole

Green: Flux-Field - be very careful with these wink.gif

------------------

Commander Tyrn Marcel

GCV Falcon, Wraith HQ (Lyrius)

Wing Leader - Wraith Fleet/S.O.G.

Hard, Fast, Furious... FIRST!

Official BCM Beta Tester Team-5 Co-Leader

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