John Prezioso

All those who believe conservatives and republicans just follow lock step behind whomever the current Republican president is, take a look at the current rift between conservatives concerning Bush's spending and his Supreme Court pick. I'm not surprised his approval rating continues to plummet. I'd vote 'disapprove' myself. I feel slapped in the face as a conservative by his hole-in-your-pocket fiscal irresponsibility and his casual throwing away of the Supreme Court nomination. I feel that picking a SC judge is quite possibly the most important and profound function a president can do besides wage war, and he squanders it on an unqualified nobody. Why do presidents elected largely by a conservative base abandon that same base? Mind-boggling. I support him in America's war on terror, and on general principal, but domestically? Feh, what a dog's breakfast he's making of it.

Well, Silk, if your worried about a lousy half million dollars for a frickin' fish, then I guess your apoplectic about the government spending 8 to 10 million dollars of taxpayer money making an army simulator for recruitable young men to play. http://www.americasarmy.com/ Is $.5 million, or even 10 million, worth getting your knickers in a twist over? Jeez, man. Ever hear the term "pick your battles"?

Grizzle - I also don't wish to get involved in pissing matches. But it's a very important distinction in my view; one that lies at the very heart of the difference between conservativism and liberalism. Apologies if it looked like I was clubbing you repeatedly over the head with this - you have earned my respect for your even-keel attitude and your ability to separate politics from an issue and analyze it objectively, thus I find it worth my time discussing and debating things with you.

quote: I was just trying to set the record straight when you claimed that the statement "tax cuts for the rich" was a liberal fallacy. Sorry friend... the record was already set straight. "Taxcuts for the rich" is a lie because it is deliberately and purposely meant to mislead and misinform - the only way the liberals in this country can maintain any semblance of power, I might add. Why not call it "Tax cuts for the white"? Or is that a little too divisive even for liberals? Frankly, I wouldn't put ANYTHING past them, as they continue to stoop to new levels of shame. Why else call it tax cuts for the rich, except to deceive? It's a lie through omission; it's a lie because it deliberately avoids the truth. It is a taxcut for everyone, with some people benefitting more than others. So what? We all don't pay the same taxes, therefore we all won't receive the same benefit. As long as you keep spreading falsehoods, I'll continue to keep pointing out the half-truths and deceptions of liberalism.

quote: Actually, 30 countries have offered help under form of financial, material or personnel ressources for a temporary total amount of $ 350 million. The US help amounts to 50 $ million.True enough my friend. But who do you think is going to end up having donated the lion's share of the aid money and resources? By the same token, who will continue to be berated by Kofi Annan and his terrorist cronies as selfish and not generous enough? Much like the Tsunami aid, the 50 million will most certainly only be a first installment on a much larger payout. It's funny how no one complains about the U.S. acting unilaterally when it comes to spending money! I surely didn't meant to imply that your fine country or others do not care - apologies if what I wrote gave that impression. It's just comparatively the U.S. gives the most and is thanked the least. I'm kind of tired of it. Where are the pictures of this mulilateral UN force doling out aid, anyway? I haven't seen them, and no, I don't just watch Foxnews. Hey, maybe your fine nation of Spain can step up and be the next Superpower! We've had enough of it in the U.S., I think. quote: What I almost never see are people from the US...Hey I was there in '96. Weren't you paying attention? Iwas the guy in the sailor uniform, looking lost.

quote:You keep voting for corporate politics and I'll keep stockpiling food and ammo. Another Ted Kazinsky in the making. Why not just start killing off the unwashed masses now?

quote:Our superpower status is fading into the sunset. Hey, if it meant not having to babysit and mother-hen the world, then I'm all for it. Take the earthquake aid for example. All I have seen on the news on TV and on the internet is what AMERICA is doing. I see all of the helicopters are American. All of the talk is of AMERICAN military coming in to help dispense aid. When we are not the superpower of the world anymore, maybe someone else can take a turn at being the go-to country for EVERYTHING and have to sit and listen to the rest of the world whine and cry that they aren't doing enough, and their leaders are greater threats than Hitler and Hussein. It would be a nice change of pace when we, like just about every other country in the world does now, could worry about ourselves and no one else. I'm sure the world would be a much better place when no one gives a crap about anyone but themselves. While we're at it, let's all become like Silk and give up on everything. Sure, let's implode on ourselves - that'll teach everyone. Let's give up on America and say the hell with all of the sacrifice in blood that Americans have given in defending her right to be, and the ideal she was built on. Pessimism and division will surely work where optimism and belief in the American dream have so obviously failed. Good plan there buddy.

quote: And I've pretty much given up on the whole system. This country will implode in 20 years. I do hope you are not serious. In 20 years, NOTHING will have changed. I'm not sure if I'm more disturbed by you apparent obsession with Bush-bashing (the guy has made for a relatively lousy president, but come on!) or your complete and utter pessimism about America. Snap out of it man!

It's not unhappiness, my friend - it's avarice. The liberals in the this country sadly have been extremely successful in instilling envy into every aspect of our society. It's like Soback said, it's a pure socialist model they are working off of. The fundamental principal of class envy is that you have to be focused on what someone else has, and on what someone else is making a year. How pathetic. Why not worry about bettering yourself, instead of acting like a younger brother on Christmas morning whining that his bigger brother got more than he did? The unabridged truth is that EVERYONE who pays taxes gets relief with every tax cut that is passed. But instead of focusing on how to use the extra income to better one's own situation, we are all supposed to whine and cry that someone else got more. Are we not grownups? How childish is that? The sickest thing is that in their constant exploitation of the poor in this country, the Democrats increase the cycle of dependancy by turning our tax system into another form of welfare. Thus, you are doubly encouraged to do nothing for yourself, and all your energy is spent worrying how many more millions Bill Gates is bringing in now.

But it's so unfair! Waaaaaaahh! LOL! Okay, seriously though. This from the party that insists that people who pay NO TAXES AT ALL get a tax return! Great - now we've turned our tax system into another form of welfare. When does this nonsense stop? Anyone here who complains about "rich" people getting tax breaks ought to stop and think for a second - how does some who makes less money than you do view YOU? Well, if they subscribe to the class envy melarchy the Dems have been spewing for decades, then you make too much! You ought to be taxed higher SOLEY because you make more than them and by definition are greedy and dishonest. Think about it - your garbage man probably thinks you make too much money. Are you giving him all your earnings to make it even?

Can't stand good news, huh? Oh, at least when it occurs during a Republican administration, that is. How trite.

quote:Tsk tsk Prez... That statement is patently false. With all due respect Grizzle, it is you who are deliberately spreading untruths with your "taxcuts for the rich" garbage. There has NEVER been any such thing whatsoever as a tax that benefits ONLY rich people. You are merely playing the politics of envy, and it is quite sad, really. NEWSFLASH!!!! The people who pay the most taxes will by default see the most benefit from any taxcut. The top 1% of wage earners pay one third of all taxes in America. Why wouldn't they see a bigger benefit than a guy making $30,000 a year? It is a matter of mathmatics, not of politics. Oh, I know! It's just so unfair! Meh, cry me a river. This ridiculous notion that someone should be penalized for doing better than you is a key class envy instigator that the Democrats have made a living off of, and you guys have bought it hook line and sinker. Or should we make a taxcut only for the poor? That's hystetrical- a tax cut for someone who pays virtually no taxes. Face it, the jig is up. "Taxcut for the rich' is a deliberately misleading, divisive, vote grabbing tactic that is as tired as it is pathetic. Gimme a break - I KNOW you guys are smarter than this. Stop playing politics for once and lay off the left wing claptrap BS. [ 10-12-2005, 01:35 AM: Message edited by: Prez ]

Tax cuts for the rich is a liberal talking-head fallacy that has been disproven so many times that it is useless to even debate it. If that's what you wish to believe, fine, but don't expect anyone with a brain to agree with you. As far as the deficit spending, you are correct sir. Bush has gotten out of control with his spending. I daresay he is acting (in a fiscal sense) like I would expect a Democrat would. But if you're going to hold up liberal tax and spend Democrats like Bubba Clinton as the model for fiscal responsibility, prepare to be laughed at. EDIT: Oh and by the way, welcome to the 3000AD community! OOPS! Can't do a beerchug! You're only 16!!! LOL!

quote:which is impossible. Difficult maybe...impossible no

Don't you know those Sunnis are really Republican lapdogs in disguise?

Oh no! GOOD news? We can't have that! Quick, find a way to spin it so everything still looks like it sucks! Bush is a moron! Bush is a liar! He has no strategy! Blah, blah blah, yadda yadda yadda. Actually I have no doubt the haters will be along soon to put their negative, morbid, and defeatist slant to it.

Hmmm... if you're looking for me, I'll be in the food court!

quote:...in recent history, nobody has managed the economy worse than Reagan and Bush (cough...Republicans!). Oy vey. More revisionalist history from our left-wing friends. Surely an unbiased source, as well.

quote: I might as well vote for Democrats. Well, ridiculous spending bills like Bush's highway bill aside, I've gotta say, if that's your attitude, it sounds like you've already given up on the whole system to me.

Yeah, nobody but Republicans waste money...

"It's full of stars!"

I knew there was a reason the Dems like her. What the hell is Bush thinking? Why is it Republicans continue to behave like losers when they won? Sometimes I wonder if the Rebublicans really have the guts to stand up for their core values. As far as the pick goes, I was hoping for Pryor myself. But I hope Meiers will serve adequately. She deserves a chance at least, now that she'll most likely be confirmed.

What makes you say it's a sorry pick? I for one am disappointed that who I wanted was not nominated, but, to be honest, I know NOTHING about this woman. I will say that when so many liberal democrats praise her I start to worry...

Nomad- The distinction is two fold: 1) That the sales taxes collected by the retailers are done according to the state you are in, and it is not mandated by the federal government. Personal example: I used to buy all of my pc parts from www.newegg.com, but they started charging sales tax to people ordering from Tennessee. (The online retailer apparently uses its discretion based on individual state taxation laws as to which buyers from which states are charged sales tax on online purchases). So I simply started buying all of my hardware from www.tigerdirect.com , and avoid all sales tax. 2) The taxes are imposed by states in the U.S., and not by a foreign power(in this hypothetical case, the EU), as is the concern. So you're not quite discussing the same situations in my opinion. As it stands right now, as far as I can tell, just about anyone not in California (the tax happy liberal capitol of the U.S. )can find an online retailer that will not charge sales tax for online purchases. Any future legislation that would change this would be done in our system, and we could just vote the greedy jerks calling for it out of office. Theoretically, anyway. Edit: quote:I have the impression that people's integrity is the only guarantee against abuses. Even the most carefully designed system may be vulnerable to insiders if enough convergence of dubious interest exist at a certain point. We may never find the best model in objective terms, because imperfection is human. True enough, to a certain extent. But the Founding Fathers knew that power could corrupt the most decent of men, and created a system that at every level mitigates the potential damaging effects of corruption.

quote: Actually, I'm just trying to show that no matter your country or political affiliation, when it comes right down to it, they're all pretty much the same. Governments tend to act in their own best interest instead of the public they are supposed to serve. I think you mean, government officials are all pretty much the same. There is a vast difference in the governments of EU and the U.S. The U.S. system is one designed to counter corruption and greed through checks and balances and constitutionally-based restrictions on positional power.