Soback

Welcome to liberalism. When the minority wakes up and doesn't buy into their socialistic bs, they feel so threatened that they become the animals they claim the other side is. I wonder how long the Spanish population will buy into the poor immigrant sob story, and realizes that wellfare will get them nowhere, but working for themselfs and getting ahead without being dragged down by wellfare recepients will. And when they do, what will the socialists call them then?

Hey, how many times have I told you: No embedded immages. Now where's that ban button.

Yes, you're right. I should've been more clear. My post was based on the carry over conversation from that previous post I linked. Where Nomad kept saying he does not condone terrorism, and in the next sentence rationalizes the radical Chechens actions. So no, I am not talking about every single Chechen. Looks like they are moving more of their "business" into Europe. And since it's closer to Nomads home, I thought he would care more and instead of going with the same "terrorists are also human" he would actually say something else.

Jag sure made an easily understandable reference towards political parties, and their respective practices. And if you tell me that those refrences are wrong. I will point you to San Francisco, where a cop killer got off free last year. The law punishes killers period, and has an even harsher penalty for police killers. Explain to me how he got off free were it not for the liberal judges and prosecutors. So like Jag said, conservatives don't stack the court, they put people in there who actually understand and FOLLOW the law, unlike the judicial system in SF, which is LIBERAL by the way. Which proves Jags point.

People of Iraq FOUGHT their own government. People of Israel, US, Britain, will FIGHT FOR their government. I doubt she is so ignorant as to not know that. That's why you could separate people of Iraq from their government, you can't however, separate people of Israel, US or Britain from their governments, because we the people ARE the government. Unlike in Iraq where Sadam got 100% of the vote in last "election"

quote:Originally posted by nomad: True, terrorists do horrible things. But frankly, one thing I've learned in my life is that blood has the same color everywhere. And if innocent people die by the hand of chechen terrorists or under russian MRLS fire, it's still slaughter. Besides, historically terrorism has in the past been rewarded. Just check the biography of prominent Tsahal officers of early Israel. Morally, the end doesen't justify the means, but unfortunately, it's the inverse who's almost universally done. True, Hitler, Stalin, Osama, Musolini, rapists, murderers did/do horrible things. But frankly, one thing I've learned in my life is that blood has the same color everywhere. And if innocent people die by the hands of Hitler, Stalin, Osama, Musolini, rapists, murderers, or if Hitler, Stalin, Osama, Musolini, rapists, murderers die by the hands of the people, it's still murder. Besides, historically genocide, rape and murder have been rewarded with plunder, gratification and profit, just read their notes and journals, the end doesn't justify the means, but unfortunatly, it's the inverse who's almost universally done. WOW There is no black and white huh Nomad? There is no right and wrong? We can't judge? We are all just people? Like I said, you trying to blow smoke in peoples faces with words like "I agree..." and then in the next sentence saying exactly the opposite, won't work as long as I am here.

This is EXACTLY what I mean. ROFL You just never learn do you? See Prez, he just said how he agreed with your post, and then in the next sentence started saying how he disagrees. And then in the next paragraph started saying how terrorists have the same blood and are people too, and then in the third one justifying it. Damn Nomad, wow. This is so reminiscent of the way politicians speak. It's psycological, because when the first sentence they say is what people want to hear, the next one can be ANYTHING and people just lose focus after the first one, try it in an argument with your spouse or friend, first sentence out of your mouth is how they are completly right, second something intermediary and third how you are right, and watch them melt because their mind is still on the first one. It a good strategy, but it's not speech here, it's writen text and therefore doesn't work. I don't even have to quote you. People can read on their own and see that what I have posted above about you, you just proven with your previous post. Go ahead, call me a liar, or as quoting you out of context, I don't think it will stick, because you just keep proving it for yourself over and over and over again. But in either case, those missles we tend to be forgetting. What will your stance be about Chechens and other terrorists if they blow up a heavy that's just taken off with 300+ people? The same fighting for their cause, or will you start realizing what Russians had to deal with for 200 years, mabye that was even the reason they invaded Chechens in the first place, maybe they were tired of having border towns raided, maybe that's how the bed time story came about where word Chechen was substituted with the wolf. Ever thought of that?

Well, don't tell me. That's what those Iranians are saying. They are just trying to be carefull so as not to be labeled as calling for genocide. Lookts to me however, that that's exactly what they are doing.

Yeah, beats me though. All I did was posted how looks like Europe might be in deep trouble soon, and then his previous quotes on terrorism, and wanted to see if his stance has changed. I guess not, go figure. Guess when Nomads primal instincts kick in and he stops splitting hair and starts calling terrorists and their breeding countries for what they are instead of rationalizing for them, it will REALLY have be bad then. Wonder why such a huge deffensive outburst at my post though. As a flight instructor I had to learn a bit about phycology. It tells me that Nomad is bothered by the things I said, because he knows for himself that it's true, but actually WANTS to believe for himself that they are not, that's why he didn't come back with any facts or cohesive statements, there was no logical defense or justification that could be put up. [ 10-31-2005, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: Soback ]

Edited by moderator.

Oh come now Nomad. Why get so fired up when I requote your own words? Everyone here knows your stand on terrorists, or lack there of. Let me clue you in. Everyone here knows in the first paragraph you say something to the extent of "I do not justify terrorism, and think that it's dispicable". Then in the second one go on to say how "I value all human life, even when a terrorist dies, it's still a human life that needs to be valued" and then in the third one you START JUSTIFYING terrorism. In that example I quoted, you were justifying terrorism by saying that Russian invaded Chechens in the 1800's OVER 200 YEARS AGO, and now that they are fighting back, by murdering children at schools, decapetating civilians, you pretty much say that we had it coming, and I will quote you again, this time in it's entirety "It has been centuries since russians have repeatedly attempted to seize an area who never belonged to their culture. Centuries. I certainly don't condone the horrible acts Bassayev has committed, but Russia has created this problem from A to Z, and then they whine..." So no need to get all huffed up. Unlike in Europe, we in America let others hold their point of view, no matter how reprehensible it is. As far as me quoting you. I've told you before, that a man who takes no sides, is the worst of them all. So don't cry now that your attitude of condoning terrorism and at the same time rationalizing it by saying things like they had it coming is coming around and biting you in the behind. "There are two sides, one bad, one good, but the middle is always evil". It's just what it is Nomad, no reason to be ashamed of who you are. What I would worry about, is events like 9/11 hitting closer to your home. Especially when things like in that article occur. Maybe your attitude will change then. Would you be busy rationalizing the attacks or trying to fight them off? I wonder, but what I do know, is that if people like you don't change, Europe has no chance.

Marion Barry Charged in Income Tax Case "Barry was videotaped in a hotel room smoking crack cocaine in an FBI sting during his third term as mayor. In 1991, he served a six-month prison sentence and he went on to regain the mayor's office in 1994. He declined to seek reelection in 1998, but last year he was elected to the District of Columbia Council representing Ward 8, one of the city's poorest neighborhoods. Barry earns $92,605 a year in his Council post. He has served a total of 21 years in city government, including two previous council terms. Completion of his current term in 2008 will qualify him for pension benefits and a lifetime income. City officials have said the law allows Barry to keep his council seat unless he gets felony prison time."

Jihad and jingoism on Iran's streets "Asked for her views on President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's remark that Israel "must be wiped off the map", Ms Kohandani, a 21-year-old law student, was unreflecting. "Whatever he says is right, his words are Islam's words," she said. "Israel is of no importance to Iran. We don't believe in it as a country. The word 'Israel' doesn't exist on our maps. We write Palestine instead." "Hamed Babayi, 27, an agricultural engineering student, said he was "proud" of the president. "I am proud of him because he is speaking strongly against superpowers like Israel and America. I have promised myself that I would go to war against Israel, America or any other country that attacks Iran. We should wipe not only the government of Israel, but also those of America and Britain off the map. But we don't mean their people."

Chinese exporter linked to missile scheme "Federal investigators have linked a Chinese state-run export company to a conspiracy to sell surface-to-air missiles in the United States, Justice Department officials said. The China Xinshidai Group, a conglomerate of several Chinese state-run manufacturers, is accused in a scheme to illegally export Chinese missiles to the United States through organized crime groups. "This is all part of the conspiracy to sell, essentially, surface-to-air missiles manufactured by the Xinshidai company in China," one official said. The officials said the case also involves bribes paid to a foreign government, but they would not elaborate. " ---One more reason to buy American made, instead of Made in China trash.

Terror Cell smuggled missles into Europe "An Islamic terror cell has smuggled two surface-to-air missiles into Europe in a plot to shoot down planes at one of France's main airports, it was claimed yesterday." "French and Algerian extremists with links to al-Qa'eda bought the Russian SA-18 Grouse missiles from Chechens in 2002 and smuggled them via Georgia and Turkey, according to French anti-terror sources quoted in Le Figaro." ---From Chechens? No way, I mean come on. Nomad thinks that they are just a bunch of opressed, abused and missunderstood poor people. And Russians, and I quote Nomads own words "What goes around comes around." (that was in response to that Russian school massacre), and justifies it by saying "Additionally, you may ask to chechens why they kill innocent civilians. They will answer you how these civilians are innocent if its their taxes who pay for the ongoing Russian occupation..." A thread from which Nomad is quoted Well, I guess France had it coming too. I wonder what they ever did to Chechens. Or maybe there's another reason that Russia is fighting them? Hmmm... I wonder... [ 10-30-2005, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: Soback ]

You know what. I've been thinking, and had an epiphany. Lets say you find some uncivilized bushman, bring him into civilized world, give him tools to build a house, give him a fishing stick to fish, ect.... He will still behave like a bushman, because he was NEVER TAUGHT how to use the things he was given. He was only given them and expected to suceed. (that hillarious movie "Gods must be crazy" comes to mind, lol, the coke bottle) That's where people like Grizzle come in, and his point of view. They were "GIVEN" capitalism, Republic, ect...They were never taught to USE capitalism and this form of government (just shows how our public schools are a failure, and nothing more than an indoctrination for socialists). That's why they are confused and think that the system is bad and faulty, because they can't understand it, and can't suceed in it. Me, I have experienced both. Capitalism and socialism. And seeing how under capitalism I can ACHIEVE based on my potential, knowledge, skill, and in socialism I could not. Which system do you think I would pick? Now think, which system would a guy pick, a guy that can't achieve under capitalism, the system where your own potential is your only ticket from rags to riches. Would he pick capitalism, or would he pick a system where he is told that no matter how bad of a failure he is, he will be alright, and maybe can even achieve something based on how corrupt he is willing to become. Because under Socialism, you just plain out WILL NOT achieve anything based on your own potential ALONE, you ride on others, you MUST be corrupt and caniving to suceed, and you can either couple it with potential, or just be corrupt, the only difference is how far you will go. WOW. That's why all the complaining, and frustration. Because me, I made over 20% trading stocks this year. Instead of complaining about prices, I understand what capitalism is, and USE it based on my potential. I MAKE my own money, and risk losing it or profiting. Those who don't understand that they live in a free society with a free market, will of course become frustrated and start saying how horrible it is, because what they want is stability that's based on someone else picking up the slack and taking risks.

That CEO is who RUNS the company. You think you can do his job? You wouldn't last a day. An inventor that invents a product, and then creates a company around it. He HAS earned it. Even a monkey can do manual labor, but can it invent a vacuum? Design a plane? Plan the companys future? In 1700s if you wanted milk, you had to go into the barn and milk the cow yourself. Now, thanks to the guy that invented automatic milkers, and the whole process, not only can you get enjoy milk anyday, but it costs you under $2.00 instead of $20.00 as would be the case without automation. You think CEO's sit there with their legs up on the table? Then you are not even half as smart as I think. Not only do I KNOW some CEO's, I saw their schedule and some of their work. It would take months if not years just to get into the flow of the things they do when they run a billion dollar company, let alone replace them. That's what happened in Russia during the communist revolution. All the private bussinesses were "liberated", and CEOs given a salary that matched their common labor. CEO's left, companies colapsed, and the other CEO's they replaced them with were corrupt, incompetent idiots (just like any other government employee) that let the company "run" itself, with less than 40% efficiency, and skimmed off the top with their corrupt deals between other CEO's, since everyone got paid the same (hey, you want a car, all you gotta do is pick up the phone and call your buddy who's the head of a car plant, you however have to be the head of a furniture plant, if you are a common worker, take the bus or walk). I lived that Grizzle, and I KNOW what I am talking about, I felt it on my own skin. In US I am on my 3rd car and my 3rd motorcycle, I'm a pilot, and I earn my living, I would do even better if I didn't have to feed my neighbor, put his kids through school, and pay for his section 8 housing, I worked for everything I have. So don't try to BS me that people under capitalism are being fed upon by CEO's or corporations, the only ones they are getting leeched by, is liberals and their bottom feeding scum.

And read THIS . It will make you sick.

Here you go. I looked it up. The law is called Sovereign Immunity . "Sovereign immunity springs from the English common law concepts that (1) the "King can do no wrong" (from the days it was believed that kings ruled by divine right and that all rights flowed from the sovereign) and (2) that there can be no legal right as against the authority that makes the law on which the right depends. Despite widespread criticism by legal scholars the doctrine retains a substantial degree of viability in American law based on the second "prong." ---Governemtn accountability. ROFL, there is no such thing. "Sovereign immunity at the Federal level is particularly indefensible since "We the People," who ordained and established these United States and created the Federal "sovereign," did not see fit to cloak "our sovereign" with immunity for its actions. However the doctrine has been judicially recognized these past 200 years, planted in dictum by Chief Justice Jay in Chisolm v. Georgia [2 Dall. (2 US) 419 (1793)], fertilized in dictum by Chief Justice Marshall in Cohens v. Virginia [6 Wheat. (19 US) 264 (1821)], and germinating in Clarke v. United States [8 Pet. (19 US) 436 (1834)]. There is no constitutional basis for sovereign immunity, it is purely and simply a judge-made legal anachronism." ---And that's why we need to hold judges accountable. To take the power from them, and give it back to us the people. To stop this rule of corrupt black robes. Here's more "Why do IRS agents get away with so many violations of due process with immunity? The answer is that they are protected from prosecution by our federal courts under the contemporary doctrine of ÔÇ£sovereign immunityÔÇØ. As you can tell by the quote above from the U.S. Supreme Court back in 1879, support for sovereign immunity was not always endorsed by the courts. As these courts have become corrupted over the years in the process of expanding and upholding the income very tax that pays their salaries, the corrupt black-robed lawyers in these courts have had to contradict historical precedent by protecting especially those who enforce and administer the income tax from personal liability for criminal wrongdoing and lawlessness. Below is an explanation of how agents of the government are insulated and protected from legal liability for wrongdoing:" "3. The U.S. supreme Court has upheld the notion that persons acting as agents for the U.S. government have at least a limited immunity from prosecution because of illegal, unethical, or questionable acts they commit while on duty. This is called official immunity. As we talked about in section 11.16 entitled ÔÇ£How the Federal Judiciary Stole the Right to Petition: Judicial Arrogance and Bias Against the Right to PetitionÔÇØ, the federal judiciary has also for all intents and purposes destroyed our right to petition the government for redress of grievances and wrongs committed either by agents working for the government or by the government itself. One also cannot sue the U.S. government without their consent, and this is called judicial immunity or sovereign immunity. Why would they give their consent if you sued them for wrongful taking of federal income taxes? All of these factors conspire to make it very difficult if not impossible for the average sovereign Citizen of the several states to protect his/her constitutional rights." ---Now, tell me if corporations are judged by the same standards? Knowledge is Power, Aperson.

If scientists fudge results, and put out an unsafe drug, not only will the company end up going out of bussiness, but the criminal charges, jail time and even possibly death sentences will surely prevent fudging. When government handles research, messes up, or plays favorites with a pharm company, and of course the corruption in socialistic situation like this is not even a theoretical possiblity, but full blown reality. Who would be responsible? When was the last time you've seen a government official accountable, sentenced to death or jail time for gross incompetence or corruption? And why would the rest of the population pick up the tab for lawsuits that would follow for harm and wrongful death those corrupt government officials and scients would cause? Hmmm.... You do know that Enrons top guy shot himself? You do know that they went to jail? If a pharm company pulled a stunt like that and thousands of people died, I wouldn't be surprised if death sentences were handed out to corporate scientists and their bosses that pressured them. In corporate world, there's always accountability. Accountability to investors, to other employees, to the companys well being, and of course criminal repricussions. Government entities however, 90% of the time are held immune. You do know if your kid gets hurt on a field trip at public school, you can't charge the school, even if those who were supposed to chaperone failed at their jobs (doesn't work the same way at private school, they are held accountable). Other government employees and entities have the immunity too. I don't remember what the law is called, but it's there. Learn something every day. That's why government workers are usually bottom feeders, they need neither the drive, nor be competent to succeed in their enviroment as their jobs are secure no matter their performance, they are very rarely held accountable. Perfect example is DMV, and that's just one layer of this trillion layer of beurocratic mess. Anyhow, government however, nobody would be accountable, and the whole thing would be swept under the rug with officials stepping down, and that's where it would end. [ 10-29-2005, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: Soback ]

Haven't you ever heard "If someone says THEY WANT TO KILL YOU, then you better believe them?" or you think someone would say it like a joke and then laugh? Yeah, real funny.

Socialism is an abomination. It's by defenition, like Jag said, a PARASITIC form of government, literally. It feeds off of those who produce, and gives that wealth to those who do not. It's legal slavery of the productive and inventive people. No sane person would give up the product of their mind or of their skill for free, NONE. Only a self destructive fool would. There IS no co-existence between socialism and capitalism. The "co-existence" can be likened to that of a cancer and it's host, because socialism destroys the wealth capitalism creates. REAL Co-existence is when a host and another COMPLEMENT each other, socialism DOES NOT complement capitalism, it EATS at it, dependent upon it's wealth. Think about the following quote "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" Does that sound good to you? If you worked all day, bought some food for your family, and stocked up for the week, and there's a bunch of lazy scum down the street who think they are above sweeping floors and washing toilets to put food on the table, and are entitled to your food because their need is greater then yours, does that sound fair? Well, that's what socialism is, and depending on your answer, it's what you represent. But in any case, the BEST thing you can do for yourself Aperson, and I mean THE BEST thing in this world, is go read Atlas Shrugged. It's an interesting book, has nothing to do with politics or anything else, it's just a story, and an interesting one at that. And even although it's fiction, the events described LITERALLY happened in Russia. It's like history, but the same events are happening NOW in US, and as you know, there's a saying "History repeats itself" and "Those who don't know history are dooomed to repeat it's mistakes". So read that book, and decide for yourself. Maybe we should even start a thread about it, and people can debate about what's presented in that book. But that's for another day, everything has it's time.

Posted by Grizzle: "Well, the increase in gas prices should be proportionate to the increase in the cost of a barrel of oil. Outrageous profits such as this indicate they artificially increased the cost beyond the increase in the price of a barrel of oil. As you said, it doesn't cost them more to refine it, but somewhere along the line the end prices got inflated." ---You know where things work that way Grizzle? In socialism. You think people don't get the short end of the stick? Wrong, they do BIG time, while the heads of factories sell off what belongs to the people and POCKET the revenue for themselfs, while blaming the shortage on stale air. In Capitalism, you are free to charge as much as you want, what you sell, depends if you find someone who wants to pay the price. Don't like gasoline prices? Don't buy it. Go ride the bus. Quit complaining about a free society. You like socialism, Europe is the place for you, I'm sure Nomad would help you out and tide you over till the paperwork for life time government help gets finalized, doh, I forgot, their economy is so slumped and under the table that they don't accept any immigration, and you can't get benefits if you are an illegal, hope US worked that way. But in either case. Like Jag said, we live in CAPITALISM, absolutly nothing wrong with that, NOT A THING, I mean you have read this thread, and understand how market works, and how that money that companies make gets re-invested, and creates more money, right? Instead of complaining how 'they' make the money, go buy some Chevron stock, www.ameritrade.com freedom is great, free to take initiative and make some money for yourself, or free to sit on your butt and waste time and money replying to my post with yet another complaint, lol. Don't like it, don't pay the price, it's that easy. As much as I hate paying $2.90 a gallon, I would rather live in this country any day, than live in Russia where you had to wait 3 HOURS in line to buy fuel (if you could find any), and when you did, it would cost you a quarter of your paycheck, welcome to price regulation and socialism, from Russia with love. ROFL, no wonder Europes gas is $5 bucks a gallon, it just hit me how much EU is like Russia, the signs are there, even in fuel prices. Oh, and Nomad, what happens between our vice president and his bussiness associates, is his bussiness, when it happens on his time. Not ours, and surely NOT yours. He is not chained to his desk and lives in a free country, you are forgeting, it's not EU we are living in here, it's US.

ESSAYS ON ORIGINS: Can Evolution Produce an Eye? Not a Chance! by Dr. David N. Menton, Ph.D. This version copyright © 1994 by: Missouri Association for Creation _____________________________________________________________________ [No. 10 in a series] April 1994, Vol. 4, No. 4 _____________________________________________________________________ The human brain consists of approximately 12 billion cells, forming 120 trillion interconnections. The light sensitive retina of the eye (which is really part of the brain) contains over 10 million photoreceptor cells. These cells capture the light pattern formed by the lens and convert it into complex electrical signals, which are then sent to a special area of the brain where they are transformed into the sensation we call vision. In an article in _Byte_ magazine (April 1985), John Stevens compares the signal processing ability of the cells in the retina with that of the most sophisticated computer designed by man, the Cray supercomputer: "While today's digital hardware is extremely impressive, it is clear that the human retina's real-time performance goes unchallenged. Actually, to simulate 10 milliseconds (one hundredth of a second) of the complete processing of even a single nerve cell from the retina would require the solution of about 500 simultaneous nonlinear differential equations 100 times and would take at least several minutes of processing time on a Cray supercomputer. Keeping in mind that there are 10 million or more such cells interacting with each other in complex ways, it would take a minimum of 100 years of Cray time to simulate what takes place in your eye many times every second." If a supercomputer is obviously the product of intelligent design, how much more obviously is the eye a product of intelligent design? And yet, evolutionists are dead certain that the human eye (and everything else in nature) came into being by pure chance and the intrinsic properties of nature! Evolutionists occasionally admit that it is difficult for even them to believe such a thing. Ernst Mayr, for example, has conceded that: "...it is a considerable strain on one's credulity to assume that finely balanced systems such as certain sense organs (the eye of vertebrates, or the bird's feather) could be improved by random mutations." (_Systematics and the Origin of Species_, p. 296). Evolutionists rarely attempt to calculate the probability of chance occurrence in their imagined evolutionary scenarios. While there is no way to measure the probability of chance occurrence of something as complex as the eye, there are ways to calculate the probability of the chance occurrence of individual protein molecules that are essential to life. Over a thousand different kinds of proteins have been identified in the human body, and each has a unique chemical composition necessary for its own particular function. Proteins are polymers, whose chemical composition depends on the arrangement of many smaller subunits called amino acids. There are 20 different kinds of amino acids that are used to construct the proteins of all living organisms, including man. These amino acids are linked together end-to-end (like a string of beads) to form a single protein macromolecule. The average protein consists of a string of 500 amino acids. The total number of combinations of 20 different amino acids in such a string is, for all practical purposes, unlimited. Each protein in our body, however, must contain a specific sequence of amino acids if it is to function properly. It is the task of the genetic system in our cells to organize the assembly of the amino acids into precisely the right sequence for each protein. Proteins have been called _informational_ macromolecules because their amino acid sequence spells out information, in much the same way as the letters of the alphabet can be arranged to form a sentence or paragraph. We can appreciate the improbability of randomly assembling one of the essential proteins of life by considering the probability of randomly assembling the letters of the alphabet to form even a simple phrase in English. Imagine if we were to try to spell out the 23 letters and spaces in the phrase "THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION" by using the evolutionary principle of _chance_. We might proceed by randomly drawing characters from a Scrabble set consisting of the 26 letters of the alphabet plus a space (for a total of 27). The probability of getting any particular letter or space in our phrase using this method would be one chance out of 27 (expressed as 1/27). The probability of getting all 23 letters and spaces in the order required for our phrase can be calculated by multiplying together the probability of getting each letter and space (1/27 x 1/27 x 1/27 -- for a total of 23 times). This calculation reveals that we could expect to succeed in correctly spelling our phrase by chance, approximately _once_ in eight hundred, million, trillion, trillion draws! If we were to hurry the process along and draw our letters at the rate of a billion per second, we could expect to spell our simple little phrase once in 26 thousand, trillion years! But even this is a "virtual certainty" compared to the probability of correctly assembling any one of the known biological proteins by chance! The 500 amino acids that make up an average-sized protein can be arranged in over 1 x 10^600 different ways (that's the number ONE followed by 600 zeros)! This number is vastly larger than the total number of atomic particles that could be packed into the known universe. If we had a computer that could rearrange the 500 amino acids of a particular protein at the rate of a billion combinations a second, we would stand essentially no chance of hitting the correct combination during the 14 billion years evolutionists claim for the age of the universe. Even if our high-speed computer were reduced to the size of an electron and we had enough of them to fill a room measuring 10 billion light years square (about 1 x 10^150 computers!), they would still be exceedingly unlikely to hit the right combination. Such a "room" full of computers could only rearrange about 1 x 10^180 combinations in 300 billion years. In fact, even if all the proteins that ever existed on earth were _all different_, our "room" full of computers would be exceedingly unlikely to chance upon the combination of _any one of them_ in a mere 300 billion years! Evolutionists counter that the whole probability argument is irrelevant since evolution is utterly purposeless, and thus never tries to make anything in particular! They insist, more over, that "natural selection" makes the impossible, possible. But evolutionists were vigorously challenged on this claim by mathematicians in a symposium held at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (the proceedings were published in the book, _Mathematical Challenges to the Neo-Darwinian Interpretation of Evolution_) Murray Eden, Professor of Engineering at M.I.T. said: "The chance emergence of man is like the probability of typing at random a meaningful library of one thousand volumes using the following procedure: Begin with a meaningful phrase, retype it with a few mistakes, make it longer by adding letters; then examine the result to see if the new phrase is meaningful. Repeat this process until the library is complete." I will leave it to the reader to consider the probability that an intelligent Designer and Builder can intelligently design and build an eye. _______________________________________________________________________ Dr. Menton received his Ph.D. in Biology from Brown University. He has been involved in biomedical research and education for over 30 years. Dr. Menton is President of the Missouri Association for Creation, Inc. Originally published in: St. Louis MetroVoice PO Box 220010 St. Louis, MO 63122 _______________________________________________________________________ Corrections and revisions have been made by the author from the original published essay. This text file prepared and distributed by the Genesis Network (GenNet). Origins Talk -- (314) 821-1078, Walt Stumper, Sysop. FidoNet, 1:100/435; FamilyNet, 8:3006/28; GenNet, 33:6250/1 [email protected] [email protected] Voice: (314) 821-1234 Genesis Network I -- (407) 582-1972, Jim Johnston, Sysop. FidoNet, 1:3609/11; FamilyNet, 8:3111/0; GenNet, 33:6150/0 CompuServe: 73642,2576 Voice: (407) 582-1880 Contact either of the above systems for information about file distribution and echos. --- *** ---

That's your congrats? Ugh Anyways, Yeah Jag, teach them right, lol, and I mean RIGHT in more ways than one.