Lotharr

quote: Yes, i'm against gun control. Yes, I’m against centralization of governmental power and the discarding of the Constitution. No, I don't think that the United States government has enough money invested into the military that they could outfit all their troops with invulnerable body armor that US civilians couldn't stop. No, I don't think that the government will turn against its people in the forseeable future due to the make-up of the armed forces. If the power to kill large groups of people without a lot of collateral damage is controlled by only a few, a bleak picture takes form and it really won't matter about the citizen soldier idea anyway. I think weapons tech is headed this way. If these systems are deemed classified we won't know about them so we can't voice an opinion on them and control them. But anyway, if you don't think that "the government" can take over the country by force of arms with or without armed citizens (I believe this) then why have weapons at all? I think earlier you talked about only the criminals having weapons? I still believe that only very well organized groups with a serious and professional attitude would be able to get their hands on weapons. Not knuckle head Joe Loser with a gat and a born to lose tat on his chest.... Yes there will always be exceptions to this but I believe this would create a safer environment for school, work, and life in general. No I don't want to be a slave but I don't want to be killed by a fourth time loser that can get a hold of a gun faster then I can. And no I don't want to have a shootout at the 7-11 with Joe Loser either....I have better ways to spend my time. And someone commented above about other industrialized nations having these laws. I believe that is correct. I would need to do some checking but I do believe America leads the way on violence, gun violence, sex crimes, citizen incarcerations etc out of other industrialized and democratic countries.....not a pretty picture. Well for some anyway. A lot of hypocrisy going around…. quote: I've agreed with just about all of Jaguar's points regarding gun control, but I highly doubt that the government is corrupt to the extent that they are going to get invulnerable equipment, take all of our guns, and then oppress us all. I guess the main point i agree with is the end result. The citizen-army of this country isn't going to turn against it's people, and if gun control legislation is stopped, I highly doubt that the scenario would happen. I think I agree with most of that but the question still stands. Why do people need access to military grade weapons or devices who’s sole purpose is killing and being concealed...like a handgun? Unless it is to fight off the other death wielding citizens..... quote: If there's no money, there's no money. The liberals will pass gun control legislation but will also not increase military spending. The conservatives will increase military spending but not get rid of our guns. The only way both will happen is if there's a radical change in American politics. The system is in place, but the money going into it, which is needed for the type of deployment and construction of that much equipment, is not. I don't know really. But an air of fear is created by many different sources to justify an armed citizenry and vastly superior military but where is this mentality going to take us….

Jaguar I think you would find we have a lot in common we just disagree strongly on execution. quote: Man, did you just say that? EXCELLENT!! And you know all they have to do is go by the constitution and we'll have it. If the government would release all the power they have taken, and keep ONLY those given to it by the constitution, we would be in VERY good shape. That is the decentralization that we need. When you say release don't you mean move? From the Federal level to the state?

Welcome back Mechise...give em' hell!

I'm here chief.

Dredd, have you been paying attention? Why don't you stop calling people's ideas and belief’s stupid and the same won't be applied to you? You won't even make the distinction between stupid idea's and stupid people....just rollin’ it all into one grossly inappropriate and inaccurate stereotype. If you think you have a legitimate position or idea don’t give me the room to dismiss your idea’s out of hand because of poor remarks that reflect a narrow mind. And where Jaguar was warning about ten years (applied to anti gun polices) I would warn you about dismissing this idea. I work in an Army R+D area. I have seen unclassified data showing these ideas for the future. I can’t even imagine what is in the works that is classified. If you think it matters which of the two parties controls spending makes any difference to weapons development your mistaken. This is high dollar stuff and the network is already in place. If what you think of as a liberal controlled government could dismantle (even if they wanted to) this system you are mistaken. Something more fundamental would have to change before that could happen. The services will shift funding to accomplish the goals they set (or wait out the political storm)…. you would be surprised at the maneuver room they have for this. And you would further be surprised at what policy corporate interest can effect when properly motivated. I’ll get to your comments in a second Jag…..

I'm a monk...bare knuckle conversations are fun....it’s interesting how I can beat the undead until they run out of "fatigue" and then stomp their head in.... I also ate something in the beginning and my willpower dropped by 20 points I think I'm just cursed somehow...but I'm a monk and should know about these things right? It is fun after you level up some….

And I think the time is coming...or is already here when the government will have weapons that citizenry cannot fight against with conventional means. These systems will be too expensive and powerful for private citizens to own. So the only solution in my mind is to decentralize governmental power even further. Increase checks and balances, have easier access to information by the private citizens and break up systems of power that threaten a democracy allegedly created for the people.

And some people wonder where burning out the rich being a grand idea comes from Drive on Remo you are making sense. But remember who you are talking to. Some people have no idea what morals can mean to life. They deserve the pity they will not give.

quote: Seriously though, your right, people are tough, they will survive just fine. Maybe a hundred years ago you could complain about capitalism ruining peoples lives, but (with the exception of some illegal aliens) that kind of thing simply doesnÔÇÖt happen any more. No it is still there but mainstream media doesnÔÇÖt focus on it. And even legal immigrants are exploited. Even natural citizens are. Some does not do the numbers justice I think. quote: I'm not THAT heartless, come on. I have no idea...really....I haven't heard you express any compassionate feelings or acknowledge with any degree of feeling the plight of people. You indifference is bizarre and seems unnatural for someone with a brain who disagrees with sexism.. . That is your right but I think it is horribly twisted. quote: Perhaps, but IÔÇÖve found that philosophers and ÔÇ£great thinkersÔÇØ tend to go every which way with there opinions. They are great at thinking, sure, IÔÇÖll give them that, but that doesnÔÇÖt mean that they are right in said thinking Yes it is subjective. I like to focus on those that have a positive moral platform and achieve an amazing amount of change. For some reason these people get gunned down for their greatness. quote: I donÔÇÖt discount the good nature of most people, I think I went over that with you earlier, but I do discount any spurious ability to make themselves known to the mob. Well it is usually a form of grass root cohesion. Maybe one day when certain groups get this back we will see some results. They just have to become more disenfranchised then they are already....and I think this will be inevitable with the self destructive nature of our current system. quote: ThatÔÇÖs not as dreadful as you might think. Please show me where power hungry organizations have not imploded. quote: was more referring to the whole super race kill the Jews nonsense. If you canÔÇÖt tell, I donÔÇÖt support racism (or sexism for that matter) in any way shape or form. I despise everyone equally as it were Himmmm...you like the survival of the scummiest so much.....without the morality you claim has no value (other than to control the masses) then how could you not endorse a positive morality for a economic system and a government? Civil rights and womanÔÇÖs suffrage were achieved by having the moral consent of the populous. You can't just have one and not go all the way. Moral people don't usually stop there. The basis for these arguments is that every life has value and input so how can you just stop there? quote: The main complain against it (at least within a capitalist setting) is that it results in stealing from those who have or make a lot of money (not just the rich either) and giving to those who donÔÇÖt. It also really hurts businesses and tends to discourage success. Then I suppose a new definition of success is in order. quote: ItÔÇÖs not fair, but it works, and it works well. In your eyes. Not in others. quote: The last time I was in a church was when I was little and mom was going though a brief religious episode brought on by a natural phenomenon that she insisted was the hand of god. Others may be comforted by the though of a god and an afterlife, but I find the idea frankly appalling and a little scary. Appalling? What's wrong with the idea of having a soul or consciousness that doesn't end after death? Scary because you fear the unknown? This would support people's difficulty with change. And serve to make you sound like one of the superstitious masses. Or does your logic fail you on matters of faith? And I only meant church in the context of the belief in the human spirit as some kind of mental institution...you mentioned martyr sacrifice on the alter of the masses. My religious experiences as a child cut into to melting army men time and I have been bitter ever since. quote:The phrase ÔÇ£blided by loveÔÇØ comes to mind, wonder why. Heh heh...Probably because you write it off as a chemical reaction in the brain or something.... quote: ItÔÇÖs boneheads, not bones (everyone makes that mistake) and I donÔÇÖt throw them. Really itÔÇÖs easy, you just look at what boneheads have in the past and itÔÇÖs pretty much what they will do in the future. Predictability not prescience So what happens when people have so much history to learn from that past ways of living become obsolete....

Ahhh the manifestations of a belief in equality that forces others to ruin keyboards....heh heh. Not all ideas based off of positive morals are necessarily productive or wise.

Actually a few times when I look back on my posts someone could have just called me an idiot and they would be to far from the truth. But they didn't. I think it is the blunt format of some posts that comes from a direct type of personality that can offend others. I don't think they mean to seriously insult others....but I could be wrong. [ 05-31-2002, 11:56: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

quote: I thought you wanted me to find something else to call them besides the mob I would prefer you stay in character....it gets me fired up. quote: Yep, because, among other things, capitalism and the progress it engenders. Heh heh....people will make the best of what they got....durability of my people.... quote: True, but not often. Things may come out as you think, but I will make the best prediction as I am able and hold with it so long as it seams accurate. I would recommend you broaden your knowledge base with actual interaction with the topic subject matter. quote: Theyre not totally worthless, after all more poor people you have more rich people can be supported. This isnt universally true, but it is a good general principal Good lord....may the powers that be have mercy even if you don't. quote: Corporate funding is nice too. Or any interested party that can supply material. quote: Easily. Just because someone is a great thinker (dont get me started on that) or a good leader doesnt mean there the ultimate authority to be listened to at all costs. No but they tend to have some clarity of thought that other do not posses....what context you put that in is subjective. quote: Like my general contempt for most of humanity, it is a natural trait that is honed with practice. HA! There are wet stones in abundance in these parts... quote: Yea, and how do the masses learn who they are but through media, and that costs money. Maybe a few hundred years ago someone could rise to power without large sums of cash, but it just cant happen now. As far as loosing there lives, anyone willing to become a martyr is not the kind of leader I want to have anyway. You still discount the natural good side in people...when the need is there it is amazing what people can do and who they choose to represent them. Your kinda a martyr in your own right....I see you falling on a sword of gold.... quote: They serve a purpose, but I agree that they should be actively eliminated. Put them in the arena....two losers enter one loser leaves.... quote: The nazis were dumb (not to mention socialist, at least in origins) and they failed, why would I want to imitate them. Power isnt an end, its a means, both to more power and to the frameworks for happiness. I know perfectly well that money cant buy happiness, but it can sure as hell help. Well that's the problem with your belief....most people can't tell the difference and power becomes an end. Yes the nazi's were dumb but their leader was not. However inept Hitler was militarily, he was a true viper that exploited the system at hand. He called for the masses to rise up out of their poverty and make a change. I bet he saw power as a means also. Having large groups of poorly educated and impoverished personnel is dangerous. quote: A technical error, bound to happen eventually with the way I place quotes. Pay it no mind, I will try to avoid such errors in the future. If you wish to reread those areas they are fixed. I looked it over and honestly I can't really say what a socialism is all about...I don't even have a rough outline other then maybe: much higher taxes that are distributed where needed to ensure a comfortable living standards of all citizens. This in turn is supposed to facilitate a good will feeling that fosters an environment of teamwork. Doesn't really sound bad to me....or course I'm not greedy and I don't require material positions to ascertain my worth or brag about a social position. quote: Probably nothing, though I would have to think about it for a while. Please do....I would submit that the human sprit while impressionable has more "good" to it. I've seen it to often to ignore. quote: Not at all, in no way does capitalism force everyone to an artificially created mean, that is more the realm of socialism then anything else. I'm not saying it is the ultimate goal of socialism, but some type of equalization is inherent in all types Ive ever heard of. And in no way does a child that comes from wealth generated by liars and a thieves mean they are entitled to more opportunities. however the system you sing your praises to promotes and advances just that type of individual. One human life does not hold any more value then another....in the beginning. However a system that does not promote individual growth will never truly "capitalize" on the vast potential that exists in all young people. quote: As far as turning a blind eye to the suffering of others, its better then sacrificing myself on the altar of the masses. Well that is your personal opinion and in no way qualified to even enter the church. I know youd rather be out back selling spray paint to your cohorts anyway so Im sure your not broken hearted. No greater love has a man than this. To lay down his life for his brothers...and sisters. quote: Sell hand grenades as concessions to the spectators too You really want a bunch of people trying to eat their hand grenade quote: Thank you, I will take that as a compliment. If my comments generate a positive feeling in you I am pleased....I think you need all you can get. quote: Anyway, its true, most people exist solely for the purpose of raising a few too the top. It has been true through out history and it will remain true for as long as we can call ourselves Homo Sapiens. Heh heh....do you throw the bones and read the future or something.... [ 05-31-2002, 11:58: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

I hope I'm not the perpetrator.... I know I get carried away so I'll try to tone it down...

quote: Your right, but at some point the average increase in government control will equal the average decrease. The exact level wont stay the same, but will remain in the same general area. That is quite a theory when history shows the opposite. quote: Economic and political power has always gone hand in hand. If anything, the unwashed masses have too much control over how this country is run. Yes perhaps a bit of fresh air is needed eh? And by the way most citizens have the majority of their teeth and can write their name these days.... please don't deny the progression of your mob. Recent history has seen a quantum leap in average education levels...we are at the tip of the iceberg. quote: No, the jury is still out, but the evidence speaks for itself. What we think of as socialism today has no chance, period. Many a case has been lost when "irrefutable" proof (by some estimations) has been on hand. quote: Technology has allowed our population to grow to a grotesque level, this is clearly bad for the environment, but with 1/5 of our current population I dont think we would have even a fraction of the environmental problems we face today. With too much population technology must be abused to provide for everyone, and thus is only the tool for ecological disaster, not the root cause Sounds good to me. Well some people say we should focus on new technology to save us from the old....perhaps this is the only course of action. Too bad we have to factor in for all those worthless people out there. quote: Breakthroughs are not the only kind of advances and the steady progress of engineers, whether reinventing the SUV or designing better building material, is important. Furthermore, science is one of the areas that responds well to competition. Might I point out the human genome project. Originally it was simply a project that the government was running, but at some point a private company (I forget the name) started there own independent effort and both groups completed the project well ahead of schedule. Now, I admit that part of this was a result in the increases in computer technology, but some of it was competition between the two groups. Competition is good...to a point. I am only saying that the true geniuses are the ones that lay the foundation that the engineers use to make a better blender... And they didn't do it for money the vast majority of the time. quote: I cant say I like the two party system in the US myself as I have trouble deciding which party I loathe more and so I agree that some change is necessary, but probably not in the same direction you are thinking. I would love for you to expand on this. quote: Hardly, I simply dont come into contact with many farmers, ranchers, or janitors. Precisely the answer I thought youd provide from reading your previous posts. At least you were honest. quote: There is a difference between limiting the power of a group of people and oppressing them. Lets use the military as an example. Persons of low rank in the military have little or no power to determine what they do or where they go, period. We could call that oppression, but I prefer common sense Nothing could be farther from the truth. I could explain but since you have it all figured out you should know this already....so why did you post that in the first place? There is a big difference. quote: I have no problem with a bit of laziness so long as its not coming at my expense, and I never have and never will object to selfishness as you put it. Everyone is responsible to themselves first and foremost and I would say that it is foolish to act otherwise. Why do you dismiss out of hand the ideas of some of the worlds great thinkers and leaders? Where does this arrogance come from I wonder? quote: Nice idea, but I dont see how you could convey someones merits as a leader to the masses. Anyway, money isnt the only requirement for getting elected to office. If Bill Gates ran for president he wouldnt stand a chance. The true leaders are chosen by the masses and those leaders promote real change. Usually at the cost of their lives. I liked it better when you called the masses a mob True the system should filter out the non-hackers like draft dodgers and criminals and politicians up for lease. Those are personal opinions. However corporate bought senators are garbage. quote: With domestic issues I agree, but acquisition of power (via wealth or whatever) should be the basis for foreign policy. You would. You see power as a tool that will build more power....what then. If all we are striving for is power why didn't we throw in with the nazis? Damn morals.... quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not to make a buck but to do some good. I believe the whole appeal of socialism to the masses is that it provides them with more money, so only those who would loose out with socialism would be doing it without the incentive of making a buck.

You live in the past and ignore the realities of the present. That to me is sad. However, like all who refuse time, it will move forward unhindered with cold indifference to your outdated views and your cries for sanity. I think it was Dragon Lady who posted that the great thing about the Constitution is that it can be interpreted many ways to suit the given time....or something to that effect (and if she didn't I'm sure she'll correct me shortly). I agree with that. I think no one can deny that the founding fathers knew they didn't know everything. They created that document to be flexible and durable to protect against loss of relevance and practicality over time. Those charged with the responsibility of interpreting meaning in the context of today are the ones who's opinion truly have any practical relevance. Those people are drawn for the populous. A populous that has changing needs. The interpretations handed down today may not be the ones originally intended but these hold the most practicality while trying to keep with original intent. And the people through elected officials can change anything they want in that document with the exception of the last bit in Article V on equal state suffrage in the upper house. That document is for us now and our children later. So don't sit there and tell me people's ideas are crap when you promote thoughts that carry the same, if different brand, of a pure and idealistic view that reeks of the same offensive odor.

Outstanding. Not that I agree with all but a very good post....

quote: The first part of what you said is very true, capitalism (like many things) needs governmental control to work well and avoid problems. Your extrapolation, however, suggests that this is infinitely true and that we will continually progress towards governmental control (which, by the way, is distinctly different from socialism). I sincerely doubt this, while the level of government control over business may increase there will be a point after which such increase is simply in the areas of new type of business rather then generally increasing control over all business. Since everything is constantly changing I doubt any static equilibrium will ever be achieved. I do see the nature of business and social heath constantly struggling. Because our government is basically controlled by money those with the most money will try to make policy. One dollar one vote. These policy's are not in the best interest of people but of a wealthy few. Perhaps you find this to be a good policy.....I don't. I believe economic interest must be in line with promoting positive social goals as well as posting a profit. I do not believe profit has to come at the expense of others and exist only to maintain an often times gluttonous lifestyle. quote: Nothing lasts forever, and I doubt capitalism is any exception, but that doesn't mean we should abandon it in favor of a neophyte system that has proved repeatedly incapable of long turn survival. Socialism is bad for the economy, period, and no country or state or province can survive without money. NoneYou say the verdict is in and the debate is over. Wrong. People are out there working this issue and they are trying to counter this destructive and exploitative system. Will it end up as "Socialism" I have no idea. Should we radically change anything as large as this overnight....no. Money is good at what it does. Did I say get rid of it? quote: From the best intentions can come the worst harm. Just because something sounds nice doesn't mean it will work, and not all progress is forward progress. Might I point out that, while capitalism is not very fair, it does support progress, both economically and scientifically. I will remind you that with scientific advances comes an increase in the quality of living for everyone. Even the homeless are better off then they were a hundred years ago, never mind people who actually work. Yeah and from the worst intentions can come even more harm. Sounds like you think technology will fix all our problems.....when really it created a number of them....I hope it does. I do not advocate going back to the tribal days of societies...however if certain companies want to post a profit so bad they act irresponsibly then we must acknowledge that as a problem and they should be crushed.not slapped on the wrist. Ok maybe not crushed but serious financial and administrative action should be taken. Yes engineers out there want to reinvent the SUV many times over to make money....is this the kind of advancement your talking about? Because when I think on most real breakthroughs in science they were created by folks that were in it because that's what they loved to do. Science will always advance. That is also part of the human condition. A driving desire to know the unknown. So you can still raise the standard of living without leaving 90% of people in the dust. And have growth of technology. Does everything have be right this second? quote: In the last few hundred years that is very true, but that has not always been the trend. Furthermore, like so many things, too much freedom can be as bad as too little. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not suggesting that fascism or some such is better, it's not, but too much freedom can be a bad thing. Most people aren't all that educated about what is going on in the world or even there own country and really aren't qualified to take a hand in government in any but the most limited manner. They say that too many cooks ruin the broth, and were talking about a hell of a lot of cooks hereYeah but some issues should be put up for national referendum in my opinion. Understanding politics is a full time job....but the current set up needs a hard looking over in my opinion. quote:Well, not exactly. I have never spoken to a rancher or farmer, and the last janitor I spoke with must have been over a decade ago, It would be help to have a practical understanding and real life relationship with those of whom you would make policy over. Looks like there is more the one person suffering from ivory tower syndrome..... quote: Dont assume that just because someone supports capitalism that they have no experience with those of lower social standings, and as to having no way to relate, I would rather not. I don't assume...you do. One bad example and you write off the whole lot. Very comprehensive. quote: Mob mentality exists with groups of people, never individuals. If you were to examine human cells in search of a human being you would come up perpetually short. Just like cells go together to make up a more advanced being, people tend to go together to form an entity in its own right. Nice analogy. People as groups are growing all the time. That's why we are here today talking freely. I would rather facilitate this growth. You would rather fear and oppress it...and make a buck. Thats lazy and selfish.but you seem to endorse a system that allows for both. The former towards the privileged end of the scale, the latter for everyone. quote: Thats correct, as discrete individuals they are fine, but they are neither capable nor qualified to run a country. Who's to say they are not? A lot of complicated issues can be easily translated in layman terms. However it still requires a great deal of time to cover all the data. That is why a Republic is probably the most practical form of government for large amounts of people. However the leaders that are chosen to represent the populous should be elected on their merits as leaders, not because they have the most money. Right now we have a system that tries to restrict access to leadership based on wealth. That is the wrong answer in my opinion. The acquisition of wealth should not be the primary motivating factor when working on domestic and international issues. It is often of high concern but not the only one. quote: Money isnt a necessary evil, it isnt evil at all, for without money (or an equivalent) there is no possibility to economic success. Furthermore, there have been no truly practical solutions presented. Maybe in a hundred years it will be possible, but right now no viable alternatives exist. People are working these issues constantly and if certain governmental organizations and pro status quo groups would stop trying to sabotage these efforts we may see some rapid progress. Hell we'll see it anyway....people are looking at their lot in life all the time and saying why are things like this? How can we change it? And others are going to be there to work the issue and provide those answers. Not to make a buck but to do some good. There is no reason why people have to suffer the way they do in a country so wealthy. Systems of thought and institutions exist solely for this purpose...some directly and others indirectly.to continue this myth....but only for so long. quote: And this is a bad thing? Not in your mind. In the minds of many others perhaps. Some see the inherent limiting conditions these ideas place on societal growth. Myself included. quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You get back what you put out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A comforting thought, but not a sound basis for logical reasoning. There is no inherent fairness in the universe and that is the cold hard truth. I thought this was the underlying premise of Capitalism? Nope but there exists (in my opinion) an underlying sense of fair play that most people work towards. quote: What should it be doing? It supports the human race at a frankly ridiculous population and it allows these billions of people to go through their lives in much greater comfort. For the truly successful it provides a means to stand on the backs of ordinary people and to live as they wish. It may not be fair, but even the worst off are benefited. Any economic platform should work hand in hand with the society that created it...not dictate conditions on living through political buying power. And it does....the top dogs are working hand in hand with the some politicians for personal gain and this should not be. An economy should provide jobs, promote growth, and build a base for people to lead a good life in. Competition is a good thing but do you ever see a football player pull out an Uzi to reach the end zone? quote: Then they would be different and all of this argumentation would be invalid, whats you point? Open your mind to the possibility that things can get better for more people.and people can do better for themselves.without hurting the way you live. Growth can be achieved without sacrificing portions of the population.

quote: Damn Right hee hee....

Camping...an interesting phenomena.... I look at camping as guarding an area that has the most upgrades or good weapons.....however in some games....sniping in a position with extended fields of fire and good cover is not camping but...well...sniping....however staying in one place for too long usually get a bazooka rocket to the forehead.... That was on cool thing about AA is that you could, after getting capped switch to a new weapon.I like wolf2 better it takes time to come back in.but you need more people to play that one

I just read if you got BCM....BCG will be reduced price....now that's just cool....

I love a good sniper rifle.... Me and my buddies still play Allied Assult....that M-1 is the way to go....

quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well parents have a lot of responsibility....but how much these days? Seems more and more if you don't lock up the kids your rolling the dice. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I imagine that locking them up is just as much a roll of the dice, though I would never put myself in that position to begin with. Yeah cause you got it all figured out right Nope can't keep em' locked up....just locked down....just kidding....have good advise, set a good example build common sense and pray....I guess.....all I know if I have kids and I have any girls I'm buying a shotgun.... quote: Yes, but it works. Hmmmmmmm.... quote: I hope to be a parent who they can trust and learn from, who they can share their thoughts and not feel like I am going to judge them. I also hope that if my kid is penned up in his apt living like a pig playing a game all day, that I do what I can to help him I think that is a good plan....

That's why God made the switch and broad band...so many games are just crap out of the box....then you throw in some people and it's a whole new experience.....of course I crush all my friends consistently in a multitude of games..maybe thats it.

Interesting post. And I didn't want to do this but it seems I have excess time on my hands.... quote: Then you feeling would be wrong. Capitalism is not failing, and when it does fail it will be to a superior economic model that will have come about naturally because of a need for such a model Here's my feeling....that is open to input that isn't a tired rant or a trite scream: Back at the turn of the century (or there abouts) when antitrust laws had to be created. They were called for because Capitalism was very "pure" in form. However this "purity" was devastating to the population and, inevitably, to the same economy some would claim should be thriving. So society, through government, started regulating business. These laws have been the chain holding back a mad, and ultimately self destructive dog. The corporate run, and governmentally controlled (in theory at least), capitalism this country lives in today is different from ten years ago, twenty, etc. The farther back you look the more apparent the differences become. It seems more and more regulating is being required to maintain a "healthy" socioeconomic balance because the one exists only in the other. The change is slow but very quantifiable. Who is to say that some form of socialism isn't where it will all end up? Some would claim to have that infinite wisdom and foresight to see the future but...er...ok... However, the above being true, (no doubt some minds were screaming after my first paragraph) I see a lot of people clinging to a model that will not last. I would rather face forward and search for ways to create a more balanced and fair state, then try to hold back progress with something that is causing so much pain and trauma.....to the "mob". But this of course means you have to actually value people...not just the ones that claw out of an impoverished lifestyle. Or the happy go lucky rich folk (not reallyÔǪ they tend to be quite varied and bizarre in there own right) and everyone in between. But that's not a whole lot. The trend in government, as history moves forward, seems to be for freedom, liberty and the political representation of all the people in a nation (not to mention the world). And I think you will find, that what a lot of people really want is for these ideas's to take hold of the economy as well. So you will reply with...bah.... wishful thinking...a dreamer.... not practical etc. I really don't care. You talk to me about stealing hard earned wealth and losers who couldnÔÇÖt make it with a million bucks and a panel of personal advisorsÔǪ.have you ever talked to rancher, farmer, janitor or other ÔÇ£lowÔÇØ mob type personnel? Have you ever walked half a mile in their shoes? Some of you have and found no way to relate. Others have and took pity. Still others have and found only confirmations on their cynical view on the human sprit. And I bet there is someone in the crowd that is working one of these fields and canÔÇÖt wait to disagree with me. Not to mention those who havenÔÇÖt even really talked to someone in these professions... Because of the choices I have made, I have had the privilege to talk and work with a lot of people that work these kinds of jobs. I have searched for the traits that make a mob, a mob, and the majority of the time I cannot find them (itÔÇÖs a national phenomenon right?). I see hard working people trying to make ends meet and live a moral life. Not all the timeÔǪ.but for the most part. I have also had to acknowledge the propensity to hold certain views that I personally find troubling and backwards. But under that I always seem to find a value system based on good will towards others and personal responsibility and it motivates the hell out of me. However, I also see these same people being told to live a way they donÔÇÖt necessarily have time to sit around and debate about or really agree with. I held many a conversation on an idea someone didnÔÇÖt agree with and they end it by saying ÔÇ£moneyÔÇØ. Just like throwing their hand in the air and acknowledging a necessary evil that canÔÇÖt be gotten rid of. I say give it time and give them practical alternatives and you might be surprised what we find. As the people wrest power from economic interests and one dollar=one vote changes to.... one vote =one vote then you will see an empowered population that can make choices for themselves that will be fair and just.....in a nut shell. I believe these ideas are inherent in the human condition. I believe these ideas will be the backbone of future human power structures, and the core-motivating factor to future modifications of existing systems. Some say this is foolhardy and unrealistic. I say it is progress and given time to continue (without CIA "intervention") it will ultimately happen and serve to increase global happiness not reduce. (The nature of a lot of things seem lend themselves toward a self-fulfilling prophecy.... karma if you want. You get back what you put out. Right now we (Americans) have a huge machine (controlled ultimately by a very small group of people) telling folks to produce and consume and look damn good while they are doing it. Playing off ego and prideÔǪand making a fortune. You get back what you put out. Now IÔÇÖm not advocating we need a big brother to help us think happy thoughtsÔǪ.but decentralize and increase diversity.) The corporate system is the most effective at what it does. Right now, it would seem the point couldnÔÇÖt be argued. But what is it really doing in the end? (And if all you can say in answer to this question is providing jobsÔǪ. please widen your firing arc) What if things were different? So fellow pseudophilosophers I close this uneducated rant with...open you gun ports and have at it!! Do your worst....I really don't care. I go to sleep believing in a future where people will have the good brought out, not the bad. I will happily spend my time trying to realize this possible future and looking out for my fellow mob denizens....er....citizens.....along the way. Oh yeah na├»ve and childishÔǪ. bla bla blaÔǪ.. two tears in a bucket suckaÔǪ.. [ 05-29-2002, 18:02: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

I just don't know what to say to that.....I wish I knew what will be good a thousand years from now......