Lotharr

quote: How much stronger would the US need to be?! It's already the most powerful nation militarily and economically in the history of the world, and yet the terrorist attacks have only become more bold and more sophisticated. Strength is useless when fighting terrorism, and using the strength for brutal intentions only encourages more terrorism and an escalation in the magnitude of the attacks. Thats the question. Americans will not have another Vietnam yet they do not want to loose their standard of living. We want freedom and liberty but yet to maintain current systems of "economic growth" it would appear that we have to oppress, subvert, and kill (or look the other way)....but we aren't in this alone....the leading wealthy countries understand this reality as well....that is why there is a G-8 summit etc. The evidence is starting to build that the free market is nothing but a BS form of economic imperialism. The evidence is also mounting that the idea of a forever expanding economy is a myth that could prove to be ultimately fatal to the planet. Enter the fact that access to high office in this country is strictly regimented by media coverage and money...and our representative democracy starts to loose its just sparkle. Further compound this mess by: eliminating these issues, idea's, and problems from American mainstream media and substitute with the broken record of...."evil doers", "terrorists", and the killer squirrels (yes that was on CNN the other day)....or stories about slim shady's mothers grief over his new movie. and the breakdown starts to become clear. It is unrealistic to believe that we can ever reach a "safe" world through military buildup, exuberant CIA funding, and foreign war after foreign war (especially when your soldiers come back sick as hell and you ignore or marginalize them)...it is pure folly to think a culture that wants nothing but to live in luxury is going to overcome another where all too many are born into misery, tempered by religious faith, and honed to offer the ultimate sacrifice without flinching while inflicting the maximum amount of damage.... Now the truly ludicrous part of the whole operation is forcing the poorer parts of this country to fund these adventures in arrogance.... As our educational systems continue to erode, medical costs skyrocket, and the gap between rich, working class, working poor, and the just plain destitute increase, people are going (if they arent already) to wonder about how they live and who is telling them to live that way.... But like Tony Snow said on FOX today (while discussing the Iraq situation)....."it should be fun to see what happens".....of course his guest immediately corrected him with a questioning look and said "actually this situation is extremely dangerous"....Tony, realizing the madness of what he just said immediately tried to back track and fumbled for the words...any words...to explain what the hell he was talking about. Unfortunately for Tony, when your brain comes off autopilot it can be hard to instantly correct....they ended the interview promptly and cut to commercial...it was a truly golden moment for the FOX news family Anyway people it should be "fun".... [ 11-09-2002, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

quote: http://www.pbs.org/now/commentary/moyers15.html Commentary, Bill Moyers, Way back in the 1950's when I first tasted politics and journalism, Republicans briefly controlled the White House and Congress. With the exception of Joseph McCarthy and his vicious ilk, they were a reasonable lot, presided over by that giant war hero, Dwight Eisenhower, who was conservative by temperament and moderate in the use of power. That brand of Republican is gone. And for the first time in the memory of anyone alive, the entire federal government  the Congress, the Executive, the Judiciary  is united behind a right-wing agenda for which George W. Bush believes he now has a mandate. That mandate includes the power of the state to force pregnant women to give up control over their own lives. It includes using the taxing power to transfer wealth from working people to the rich. It includes giving corporations a free hand to eviscerate the environment and control the regulatory agencies meant to hold them accountable. And it includes secrecy on a scale you cannot imagine. Above all, it means judges with a political agenda appointed for life. If you liked the Supreme Court that put George W. Bush in the White House, you will swoon over what's coming. And if you like God in government, get ready for the Rapture. These folks don't even mind you referring to the GOP as the party of God. Why else would the new House Majority Leader say that the Almighty is using him to promote 'a Biblical worldview' in American politics? So it is a heady time in Washington  a heady time for piety, profits, and military power, all joined at the hip by ideology and money. Don't forget the money. It came pouring into this election, to both parties, from corporate America and others who expect the payback. Republicans out raised democrats by $184 million dollars. And came up with the big prize  monopoly control of the American government, and the power of the state to turn their ideology into the law of the land. Quite a bargain at any price. That's it for this week. For NOW, I'm Bill Moyers $ilk admit it, this country has declared empire for all the wrong reasons (if there ever is a good one)....that doesn't make me proud as an American... The founding of this country was in direct opposition to these kinds of wars and actions. And Jag...you should just know better....Constitutional Republican...what is that a sick joke? Anyway, I wont bash all conservatives because I know that most have honor and integrity.and ultimately, believe in people, liberty, and freedom.and when the betrayal of a people for the profit of those without concern to country becomes clear..I believe the people will act with the integrity and fortitude that has defined this country for the majority of our history.. [ 11-08-2002, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

quote: and i seriously doubt you do you do know what it means to be an american... i seriously do Yeah, cause good American's don't question anything...when they see the Stars and Bars waving they cease thinking....turn on Fox and settle in for the ride. Sorry chief not me. quote: be sure to write when your over in iraq... Sure... Anyway....now that the elections are over Bush can take the moderate road to war (unless something better comes along)...in fact I wouldnt be surprised if the admin falls into screwing around with working this issue...and then working that issue for...oh...say two years....and then...some dire threat or new military action will manifest and the scare con threat level will go from indigo to rio red..... Like I said, your talking to people deeply entrenched in their beliefs....and if they were to start questioning any of the rhetoric it would be un-American because even patriotism has been incorporated.but now there should be no excuses.the right leads the way! [ 11-08-2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

quote: not assinine children who want their way, only their way, and they'll take your candy bar ah-way if you don't keep an eye on them..... Who are you talking about? Who pay's $1.50 for gas when ecological reality puts the cost much higher? Who exports the most pollution....(and jobs)? Who dictates policy at the end of a broken bottle

Menchise you are speaking to people committed to ethnocentrism, hubris inspired foreign policy, and fundamentalist doctrine you can trace back to the crusades. I understand and salute your efforts...our republic deserves the candor....even if we can't get it from our leaders. For these people to even consider the merits of the ideas presented, entire systems of thought, ideologies, and even personality makeups have to be called into question..what do you think is easier? To watch a war against evil on CNN or delve into what it truly means to be an American(war inthreetwo.one.) Boo hoo.dissent is not un-American.nationalism killed more then dissent ever did.

Darling please do not be put out...someone else will play with you. Please forgive the ignorant who still believe in people....I know it is dreadfully out of fashion and sooooo provincial... but please, allow the foolish to have their say.... Truly you must ask yourself...where has your pie gone?

Real news in not in vogue....the real world is to America what a room full of MTV rejects is to ÔÇ£reality TVÔÇØ.....the reel world or real news is the point farthest from mainstream media..... [ 11-06-2002, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

The corpse of self governance is laying face down in the gutter, in a ghetto, getting pissed on by any big business media outlet that happens to stagger by....

I voted Green. I stood with our sign supporting one of our candidates from open to close.....even after it started to rain.....soaking wet in forty degree temperature never felt better. I had the good fortune of sharing the voting entrance area with a "Linconian Republican" for part of the day. (He was smart enough to bring a chair....of course he was seventy). We didn't agree on much...but we did agree that big business is destroying this country. He spoke at length of America...in terms of "The Republic"....it was an honor and it was disturbing. He knew he had been betrayed but wouldnt for a moment, consider yielding to despair.....he held his Republican sign high on his cane every time a car came by.... The people are what make a country great....not its weapons or GDP.....maybe one day we will realize this. Having either major party in solid control is good thing. Both will prove to be ineffective. Both parties live in a past that has yet to deal with the future in a meaningful and realistic way...both are bought and sold...both are not supported by the majority of Americans. I also voted for the libertarian running for governor.maybe next time they will be more successful. [ 11-07-2002, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

You became a millionaire?

quote: Lotharr you act as if every person who makes more money than someone else is gaining that money through trickery and exploitation, not the fact that the person making less may be a drug addict and a high school dropout. In America everyoneÔÇÖs earnings are inflated. The poor really don't have to exist here....we have so much of the worlds wealth that if we supported the less fortunate we could still maintain a super class imbalance....but not the oppressive image. FACT: max income disproportion is 1,400,000 : 1 FACT: average income disproportion CEO to national family ave is 400:1 FACT: 400:1 equals $14,000,000 to $35,000 The average American family is being f*cked over. Arnold has made some good shoot em' up flicks but he ain't worth that much. To hell with the idea of screwing people over being the best system man has to offer. quote: Extremism in either side isn't good, there has to be some leg room, and while there are corporations that are filthy, there are 10 more for each of them that are straight. Facts of life. American mass media is owned an operated by about five people and it costs over 7.2 mil to run for the senate. 1/5 of the population vote during a house race..... I DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE THERE IS A PROBLEM You can sit there and believe whatever you want but you can only hide from the truth for so long. The people are not being represented, yet they are being taxed.....the rest is history. [ 11-04-2002, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

Well I hope you'll still post....

World net daily is a for profit group "A free press for a free people" HAHA....what a load of crap..... The weekly standard is affiliated with FOX news so I don't have to touch that..... The patriot whose strings are pulled by big business and the central government...the status quo for a confused and manipulated citizenry....

quote: I am actually going give this fat freak my hard earned money? Yeah, RIGHT!! ROFLMAO!!! I'm sure they felt just like this in a failing Britain.... So much examination applied....so much science....death by slow rot.

So you went and watched the movie?

A+ MM shows why gun violence in America is cultural and connected to certain "truths" people buy into everyday in our country..... I would ask before any classic liberal, pseudo objectivist, or Machiavelli parishioner share any profound insights..they go see the movie first.

You got it.

But you can bet this will be an interesting movie....

" I am very happy and excited to tell you that this Friday, October 11, my new film, "Bowling for Columbine," will open in New York and Los Angeles. It is, I promise, the last thing the Bushies want projected on the movie screens across America this week. The film is, first and foremost, a devastating indictment of the violence that is done in our name for profit and power -- and no one, in all the advance screenings I have attended, has left the theatre with anything short of rage. I truly believe this film has the potential to rock the nation and get people energized to do something. " Michael Moore Yes yes liberal hack..... But you can bet this will be an interesting movie.... Hey you! yeah, you! If can't create proper topic subjects, DO NOT CREATE TOPICS. This is the last time I'm changing a thread subject for the sake of clarity [ 10-21-2002, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

" A New Intifada is Born by Daoud Kuttab The time was almost midnight, on Sept. 20, when a number of satellite television stations interrupted their regular programming to announce that Israeli soldiers had warned Palestinians living near Yasser Arafat's headquarters in Ramallah that the building would be blown up in 15 minutes if those inside it didn't come out. Within those tense minutes, the streets of Ramallah filled with ordinary Palestinians. Marchers, often led by women, increased in number as people trapped in their homes for days on end decided to shake off the injustice that had befallen them. Many demonstrated more in defense of their national honor than in support of Mr. Arafat. The popular uprising that began in the Ramallah neighborhood of Umm al Sharit quickly spread to Nablus, Tulkarem, Gaza and Bethlehem. The next day, women and men came out with pots and pans and beat on their household utensils as a sign of anger and protest. The following day, a candlelight vigil was held as a way to break what people considered a repressive curfew. In 1987, Palestinians introduced the term intifada into the international lexicon, when thousands of youths armed with nothing more than stones rose up against Israeli guns and tanks. In the fall of 2000, when rioting broke out following the visit of Ariel Sharon to the area around the al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem, many called those protests the al Aqsa, or second, intifada. Now, with what happened the evening of Sept. 20 in Ramallah, I believe we are witnessing the birth of the third intifada. Since that night, schools in many West Bank cities have remained open, defiant of Israeli curfews. Some areas are organizing popular schools. Some of the more affluent schools are sending homework to their students via e-mail. Curfew days have become high traffic days on the Internet as most people are doing their office or school work from their homes. A major culture is being written up, recorded, photographed and spread on cyberspace about life under curfew. What happened late that Friday night was not without warning. A week earlier, the representatives of the Palestinian people did something unprecedented in Arab politics: They forced a government appointed by Mr. Arafat to resign rather than be shamed by a confidence vote. At about the same time, a public opinion survey, commissioned by the Search for Common Ground, found that a majority of Palestinians supported the idea of non-violent resistance. Hence the peaceful protests that started 10 days ago. In the two previous intifadas, those who favored more violent confrontation soon came to dominate the protests. Such acts are not only contrary to the spirit of non-violence, they also endanger those involved, quickly limiting the possibility that large numbers of ordinary Palestinians might participate. For a long time, many international critics of the Palestinians have been asking why we don't use non-violent methods to effect change. They argue that if Palestinians do that, a major change will take place in Israeli and international public opinion that will eventually be translated in political terms. Many of us have doubts about that, seeing that the Sharon government is only interested in a Palestinian population that raises the white flag of surrender. When Palestinians in Ramallah carried out their plans to hold a candlelight vigil on Wednesday night, the Israeli army, which had said it would lift Thursday's curfew, reversed its position and reimposed the curfew. Some people obeyed the renewed order; most didn't. Schools in particular have decided that they will no longer call off their teaching duties according to Israeli army dictates. What is worrisome, however, is that the Israeli and international press have ignored or belittled the non-violent nature of what happened in Palestine last week. It seems that the long-awaited change in Israeli and U.S. public opinion will not happen soon, as both peoples continue to be bombarded by news that fulfills the aspirations of those wishing to end the conflict in a violent way. " Uh oh the savages are changing tactics....

I'll post more later. If anyone is curious about what one Walter Cronkite thinks about the current administration listen to when this Marine infantry soldier who fought in Vietnam calls in to the show...set the time to 46:00 to hear. http://www.theconnection.org/shows/2002/10...1018_a_main.asp This is a good interview all around.

quote: Yeah... and I'm not right wing Sorry i don't fit into a nice little box for you. If CNN and company presents a big money, pro huge military budget, pro war, person as a democrat and that is supposed to represent the left then I suppose I am off the chart. However, if you believe that the Democrats are now mostly the center (like I do) then I am left... but not a socialist. A person can believe in capitalism and envision a sustainable market without being a socialist..... But I believe in success through hard work, dedication, and innovation....not a system where a persons success is predetermined by birth....and not insured by exploiting and promoting poor ethics while equating profitability at the expense of environmental common sense.. I reject the idea of wealth indicating success. I further acknowledge a world outside of the corporate one presented to the American people.... I think it would be remarkable to know what Americans would want if they weren't being crushed by taxes for programs of corporate welfare and ever more elaborate weapons systems.....or if they weren't in poverty or considered working poor...or just trying to keep the boat steady so their kids might have a shot at doing better....I think it would be interesting indeed..... quote: (though Im assuming that its a compliment intended as an insult, like so many of your comments about me are Every time you speak with the self proclaimed authority of being semi learned, on the people you have never met, and the ideals you have never tried to live, you speak ignorantly and offensively...to me anyway.....so we can call it even. Some people would agree with your positions of people and their inherent worthbut I think most of them are busy being dictators or playing master of the universe in between holding executive positionscheers darling.. [ 10-19-2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]

If anyone is curious go to a search engine and type anti globalization or anti corporation....good luck there were thousands of responses..... So I ask the esteemed Ms. Rand wanna be. fantasy or unreported reality? I am not a socialist nor am I stupid....the free market is a live fire zone....but corporate media won't talk about it much....unless you watch the business shows and see how much they discuss the oil in Iraq and various other things.....

Wow....the peanut gallery really got me...heh heh...not...emoticons make such a case...

quote:Silly me, I thought we were on the brink of destroying the world for decades to prevent the spread of socialist ideas Not socialist....communist....we only used the CIA to depose a bunch of socialist regimes because we knew they would do business with the Soviets or worse. A lot of the Nato states are socialist...even we are to some extent....but it's backwards....taxes go into corporate welfare schemes and the politicians and generals end up as business men. quote: How many Americans died in Korea and Viet Nam fighting communism? This is how I understand it currently: Those weren't communist states....those were totalitarian regimes that centrally controlled the whole of the nations wealth....that is not a communism under Marx....Marx believed in democracy of the workers.classlessness. More equal then others stuff came about because those "revolutions" were hijacked or corrupted before they could follow through....but by then the world was at war and the more exploitive system prevailed...... quote: I imagine most people would be worried about the spread of marxist ideals in the USA. You would be surprised what people start thinking when they realize they did all this fighting and dying for a bunch of people who: 1) Never actually fought for anything. 2) Abuse the systems of freedom they were supposed to be fighting for. 3) Destroy the environment of the people who have to live there and call it progress. 4) Live far in excess of what is reasonable by any stretch of the imagination. 5) Start destroying the standard of living of the fighting/working class...that is very dangerous. I would submit that our current system is not sustainable and in fact takes more then it gives. Military action that is meant to keep the hogs living high will never be easily accepted by the rest of the world. Any system that seeks to exploit the resources of a nation or the world without considering that nations growth, people, or ecology is not moral. Further it destroys those resources that may be needed in the future and so should be resisted with necessary force. Maximizing profits conflicts with sustainable, ecological, and human rights concerns.and for good reason. Humanity has weapons that can destroy the world but has not figured out how to live peacefully. These weapons will always put everyone at risk until we get rid of them or learn to live together.and you do not live together by the biggest and strongest bashing the smaller one for eyeballing you.and then you sure dont take his wallet..I know some of you out there think that is a marvelous idea darling.until you get bashed but we can't think that far ahead I guess. It is an enormous task but it has to be addressed.and running around playing cowboy is not going to build the international support necessary for this international threat. And lastly as these international corporations that are amassing more and more wealth and power.but not the responsibility to govern.grow less and less answerable to legitimate authority..we could very well see a new conflict arise..well I take that back we already are.. [ 10-18-2002, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Lotharr ]