Jump to content
3000AD Forums
Sign in to follow this  
street228

Patriot Act : Reality Check

Recommended Posts

Is there a terrorist under every rock?

There has been no formal "Declaration of war" on a "specific enemy nation", by our current administration.

It was only a politically motivated declaration by our sitting President,who then subversively acquired war powers for the esecutive branch, by using the natural emotional response of the people and the legislative branch, to an act of terror on our home soil.

Here is a story of the results...

NY Times article about Jose Padilla

Now, after reading the article,and it would behoove you to do so,

What would prevent known Terrorists, in custody or taken into cutody, or anyone else for that matter, from picking people at random, and saying "we have been training this person to attack you."?

If you travel abroad for legitimate business reasons,you could be targeted for capture as an enemy combatant and held indefinately on no more evidence than having a terrorist say that you are one of them.

The Executive Branch now has the power to prevent due process of our laws on anyone it chooses.

This hearkens back to the second world war, when every Japanese American citizen was rounded up, stripped of their property and interned in camps as enemies of America. There were no legal proceedings of any kind to show evidence that they were enemy operatives of Japan.

Jump back to 2004, If you are of the Islamic faith or of Muslim descent, watch out. There are POW camp bunks with your name on them.

There goes Freedom of Religion.

There goes Liberty.

There goes the Bill of Rights under the Constitution.

All for some corporate bottom line.

Not a legal corporation either by the way.

the powers that are working to subjugate the entire world, will naturally have to subjugate America first. The machinery is almost complete.

Welcome to the new millennium.

The Millennium of Fear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest $iLk

You can't declare an act of war on an enemy that is not bound in any certain state. Those countries that harbor terrorists or aid terrorists must be taken down. That's step one which will prevent the financial ability of terrorists to carry out major attacks.

Step two is finding and killing these people.

The only thing I don't agree with so far is Jose Padilla being held without access to a lawyer. Because he is an American citizen. If you aren't an American citizen - and you are in the United States - your rights are and should be limited. But if there aren't specific ties to terrorists, these people should just be deported if they break the law in some way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Sorry Wolferz, now I think that your just plain nuts.

The Democrats have lost their fricking minds, and so have you.

We declared war on terrorism, not anything else.

We have taken out 2 countries that DIRECTLY supported terrorism, Afghanistan, who allowed AlQuaeda to train terrorists on their soill and would NOT turn them over or stop, so we kicked out the Taliban with the help of the people of afghanistan. Then we took out Saddam, WITH the permission of the UN, by the way, everyone seems to forget that, and he DIRECTLY supported terrorism through "donations" to suicide bombers etc, and a few other things that I won't go into, and now we are going after terrorists around the world.

Iraq HAD WMD's, and now we will probably find out, I believe a 90% chance that the WMD that was kept from going off in Jordan, is probably just a little bit skimmed off the top pf those weapons caches that are in Syria.

The Patriot Act has given police and the FBI and the CIA the power to cooperate, share information, and get terrorists before they are able to destroy information that might help an investigation. THAT'S ALL, nothing more, it doesn't cut into ANYONES rights, unless you are part of a terrorist cell, and the definition of a terrorist is VERY specific. So, unless you have gone out of the country to a muslim country and trained with Islamofascists in the last 3 years, and have been keeping in touch with your cellmates here in the US via the internet, cell phone, telephone etc, then you are NOT targetd and have NOTHING to worry about.

Your Skull and Bones and Bush conspiracy theories are all fun to listen too, but you take yourself FAR too seriously, and this nonsense about corporate masters is insane to say the least. and this freeedom of religion garbage, WTF are you talking about? There are NO concentration camps being prepared for Muslims, there are no concentration camps being prepared for anyone. This is still the US, the most heavily armed populace in the world, IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.

We take a terrorist into custody in Afghanistan and they are an enemy combatant, if they are taken into custody here, they have all the rights afforded ANY prisoner.

This whole scenario has been fun to listen too, but you have gone WAY too far with it. Conspiracies are fun to listen to and study up on, etc etc, but when the conspiracy theory gets to a point where you freak out every time we turn around, there is a problem.

The country will self destruct, it is inevitable, history shows us that this is true, but if your socalled conspiracy was REALLY as big and as dangerous as you claim it is, then how come EVERYONE knows about it?

A Conspiracy is a secret thing, not some college fraternity trying to take over the world.

Please, get a grip before you raise your blood pressure and die before it all comes to a head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, Jag!

That was rather emotional.

Maybe t'would be better to check your own blood pressure.

I have studied the material presented on S&B and they are NOT just some college Fraternity. The blood lines on those boys go back a very long way and it strikes me as rather odd that so many of them have occupied high government posts and so many of them have been recruited into the CIA.

So, tell me...

What's the best way to hide something?

You hide it in plain sight.

To most Americans, this Conspiracy thing would seem so utterly preposterous as to be beyond belief. It's a form of Psycho-political hypnosis that was pioneered by our old time buddies, The Nazis, but after WWII, the Russians claimed to have invented it, and they had the grand notion of using it to subvert other countries from within a target country's own governmental framework. Including ours. I don't think they completed their little master plan before the USSR imploded from all their military spending,trying to keep up with us.

At present we have the mightiest and most technically advanced military on the planet, built on the premise of defense of home and hearth. With a multi-trillion dolar price tag still on it too.

Fat lot of good it did us on 9/11/01, huh?

Why was that?

Conspiracies are like a great Oak tree, they have many branches that you can plainly see, but, it's not the branches you have to worry about. It's all those hidden underground roots.

I tell ya what Jag, rather than belaboring the point, The next time you are out with friends and family, ask them if they have ever heard of The Order of Skull and Bones. Then give me some stats on Who and how many do, and don't.

Oh and you are absolutely correct, I am Nuts!

Not a serious bone in my body. Never has been.

I am neither Democrat or Republican either, so I guess that really classifies me a nut.

But, I'd rather be a nut than a numbskull.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Cc:

I have no idea what prisons are like in the UK,and thank God I have no experience with prisons here in the US.But why do you guys think that being in prison is a 'walk in the park'?

Well, in the UK, there are a few prisons that are tough and 'hard-core' so to speak, but there are also quite a few where the prisoners have nice rooms, nice food, access to luxuries like TVs and PCs whenever they like, all for free, and, when you think about it, they don't have things like bills to pay and jobs to worry about.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

Then we took out Saddam, WITH the permission of the UN, by the way, everyone seems to forget that

Erm, I'm afraid that's just totally wrong. The US and UK went to the UN to try to get a UNSCR (United Nations Security Council Resolution) which directly authorises war, as required by the UN Charter (Chapter 7 I believe it is), and failed. They totally ignored this and went to war anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Iraq HAD WMD's,

Jag...I'm just curious...Where are you getting this information???. Everything I can dig up...is the administration STILL acknowledging they have not found any WMD's, but only that they MIGHT find them .

Please point me to some justification(artical, report, or something) for this opinion you keep posting.

If you are referring to pre 1990 gulf war, then forget it. The GAS is the WMD which WE supplied to them, and which they proved they had disposed of prior to the present US Invasion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

quote:

Originally posted by street:

quote:

Iraq HAD WMD's,

Jag...I'm just curious...Where are you getting this information???. Everything I can dig up...is the administration STILL acknowledging they have not found any WMD's, but only that they MIGHT find them .

Please point me to some justification(artical, report, or something) for this opinion you keep posting.

If you are referring to pre 1990 gulf war, then forget it. The GAS is the WMD which WE supplied to them, and which they proved they had disposed of prior to the present US Invasion.


At the end of the LAST Gulf war, we had a "complete" Inventory of the WMD's in Iraq's possession, of that list, only 10% was accounted for and destroyed. It was also a fact that Saddam continued with his programs even during the inspections, which is why he was playing rope a dope with the inspectors, ALL of our intelligence communities knew about this, but the UN would not take any of it seriously, because they're wimps.

The WMD's were removed from the country via a convoy, just before we attacked Iraq the last time, that convoy disapeared into the Syrian Desert.

Jordan just thwarted a chemical gas attack by terrorists, there is a 90% chance that this chemical weapon came from the Iraqi stashes, stashed in Syria. Terrorists are gettting hold of the WMD weapons froms somewhere, and those weapons are in Syria, and are being handed out.

And by the way, WE, as in the US have NEVER supplied Iraq with ANY weapons, let alone WMD's.

Sorry, your info is wrong, the only thing we EVER supported Iraq with during their war with Iran was intelligence and some financial help.

ALL of their weaponry came from the soviet block nations, why do you think they use Russian designed tanks and light weapons instead of M-60A3's or M-16's?

Where you got that information is beyond me, but we don't even give our FRIENDS WMD's and chemical weapons, let alone a dictatorship like Iraq.

We ALWAYS have a full garrison of our own people protecting ANY WMD weapons that are on foreign soil, and we NEVER hand them over to anyone that is not a LONG time ally, such as Britain, and that is pretty much the ONLY country we have EVER shared our WMD technology with. oh, and our chemical weapons, only last about 5 years, then they are either stored or destroyed. We have not built ANY chemical weapons in the last 15 years, so our stockpile of them is pretty much nonexistent.

Also, to create a chemical weapon is not all that hard, and Iraq got AWFULLY good at it, they didn't need our help in making or storing or using WMD's. They had the technology to build them all by themselves, and they did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

At the end of the LAST Gulf war, we had a "complete" Inventory of the WMD's in Iraq's possession, of that list, only 10% was accounted for and destroyed. It was also a fact that Saddam continued with his programs even during the inspections, which is why he was playing rope a dope with the inspectors, ALL of our intelligence communities knew about this, but the UN would not take any of it seriously, because they're wimps.

No, it's just the UN likes to see EVIDENCE before it takes action. Just because 'everyone knows it' doesn't make it true.

The other thing is, you have just said we went to war with the UNs permission!!!!! You can't have it both ways - either they didn't do anything, or they authorised a war. Which is it?

quote:

The WMD's were removed from the country via a convoy, just before we attacked Iraq the last time, that convoy disapeared into the Syrian Desert.

Jordan just thwarted a chemical gas attack by terrorists, there is a 90% chance that this chemical weapon came from the Iraqi stashes, stashed in Syria. Terrorists are gettting hold of the WMD weapons froms somewhere, and those weapons are in Syria, and are being handed out.

I have to echo street here - where are you getting this info? I'm sure the intelligence services of MANY countries would be interested to know.

quote:

And by the way, WE, as in the US have NEVER supplied Iraq with ANY weapons, let alone WMD's.

Sorry, your info is wrong, the only thing we EVER supported Iraq with during their war with Iran was intelligence and some financial help.

I'm afraid you're wrong on that one. You'd be right to say that America wasn't the only country to sell Iraq arms (the list also includes the UK, I am sorry to say), but they did do it, though this was back when Iraq was considered the 'friendly face' in the Middle East. There are also US government documents that detail the sale of dual-use items, which include samples of anthrax.

quote:

ALL of their weaponry came from the soviet block nations, why do you think they use Russian designed tanks and light weapons instead of M-60A3's or M-16's?

Some of their weapons come from Russia, yes, but others come from the US.

quote:

Where you got that information is beyond me, but we don't even give our FRIENDS WMD's and chemical weapons, let alone a dictatorship like Iraq.

Yes, you're right, the US doesn't flat out supply WMD, but it has sold dual-use items which have legitimate non-weapons related uses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jag, all I want, is to be pointed to a source, ANY source on ANY of the opinions you are presenting.

I just have tons of information accumulated over the last 15 years(Most of it in hard copy), and most of the reliable sites, on the web, contradict most of what you say, though there are many web sites which reflect your opinions as fact,but There are no reliable sources behind those sites.

I was just curious where your reliable sources were, which you use to feed many of your opinions, you state as fact. POINT THE WAY, and I want to see for myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oregon Inmates get Flat Screen TV's

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/05/03/pris...v.ap/index.html

quote:

Krahmer bought the $300 television with money he earned working in prison, where he is paid a few dollars a day for computer drafting. Inmates also must have clean discipline records to qualify for the flat-screens.


quote:

Rank and file officers, however, are nearly as happy as the inmates.

"It's cut down on the number of inmates that come out in the evening to watch TV," said Julian Ruiz, a corrections officer who operates electronic door locks and monitors a cell block. "The more people you get down here in the evening, the more problems."


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

flat screen tv, is nothing compared to freedom. I would rather be free, own nothing, and sleeping in the woods, rather than be locked in a cage, with ALL the luxury society has to offer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

flat screen tv, is nothing compared to freedom. I would rather be free, own nothing, and sleeping in the woods, rather than be locked in a cage, with ALL the luxury society has to offer


True and that was part of my point. I said so up top of this page. It would ruin me even if I had "privileges". I showed the article to support my assertation that the TV is a form of crowd control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

True and that was part of my point. I said so up top of this page. It would ruin me even if I had "privileges". I showed the article to support my assertation that the TV is a form of crowd control.

I couldnt agree more,but:"a form of crowd control", is really putting it mild. There were a whole slew of Bio-feedback experiments in the mid to late 60's ;financed by the U S Government, which point to the Television, as a very effective tool for inducing the ALPHA brain state in human beings.(i.e. the Alpha Brain State is the identical state induced in sessions of hypnosis, and is also identical to the state between asleep and wakefulness. The "sleep/awake" state which the old tibetin monks would attain when reaching their meditative state."

According to the books, I read, it had something to do with the refresh rate of the screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest $iLk

Only mildly related but I whipped out photoshop today and made this picture in regards to someone who broke into a liberal crying fit when I wasn't backing down in my argument over the Patriot Act.

>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John Ashcroft is the devil and I'm still waiting on Jaguar's facts. I know he has them because he is skilled in the art of debate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

John Ashcroft is the devil? Wow, he'd be amazed to hear you say that, considering he's a christian.

He has the same faith as the President, and so far has not abused his power at all, unlike our old Attorney General.

Mass murdering people in their homes, taking children from families with automatic machine guns, and covering for one of the worst and most immoral presidents that we have ever had.

If ANY Attorney General Could be called the Devil, it would be Janet Reno.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

John Ashcroft is the devil? Wow, he'd be amazed to hear you say that, considering he's a christian.

He has the same faith as the President, and so far has not abused his power at all, unlike our old Attorney General.

Mass murdering people in their homes, taking children from families with automatic machine guns, and covering for one of the worst and most immoral presidents that we have ever had.

If ANY Attorney General Could be called the Devil, it would be Janet Reno.

My definition of "CHRISTIAN" Does not include, Liers...(politicians)PERIOD.

I have yet to see a REAL: "CHRIST LIKE" political figure.

Devil's are bred to aspire toward immorality...as are POLITICIANS.

Christians, and politicians, are a contradiction in terms, and CANNOT be referred to as: "one and the same"(IMHO)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

"Beware of Wolves in Sheeps clothing."

lol, Yeah!!! everytime I hear those cronies mention GOD, I cringe inside, and feel like I'm going to PUKE.

Sorry all, can't help it. MY whole being GROANS!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't actually have any evidence to either prove or disprove that he's the devil, but I'm working on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I know I am probably posting a little late but i got to go to bed soon and i cant read these forums at school(they block any site with the word game in the description... facist pigs... heh). But I just read kals (mind if i call you kal... i think its kal) thing on no lawyers for the accused. What all this about lawyers man, i mean i know they might buy out a jury and such but in an average case how often does this happen. It's all about the jury. Of course this idea could also just be the school forcing American political belifs down my throat who knows? I say we all move to Britain or some such place... but thats just me... i dont even stand for the pledge anymore... but again thats just me.

Edit: One thing about Ashcroft... how intelligent do you seriously think a guy is who

[*]A. lost to a dead guy i mean come on

[*]B. decided that naked statues (art) are nudie picture that need to be covered with a tarp. Seriously who gets arroused from a statue (please dont answer that).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

I don't actually have any evidence to either prove or disprove that he's the devil, but I'm working on it.

Let us know when you get the scoop... :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Patriot act is a very good thing. Even if there was the slightest chance of them stoping and preventing a terrorist act or a crime, it would be worth it. So what if the government sees some of the things you are doing. If you have a problem with the government monitoring some of your activities, obviously you should not be doing them. You say move to Britan Cadrian where their government has much more control over their media than we do? I say thats a good thing but in some ways its bad. The judicial system in america is also slightly bad. Half the time the guilty are stated innocent by the jury and the innocent are stated guilty. Half the time this is because the people want somethign to put the blame on and suffer for a task. I say a person should not be claimed guilty unless there is decent proof against them or they are without a doubt guilty. Twisting of words by lawyers are not my idea of proving somone guilty or innocent. I've been noticing a trend here too. Most of the time Jaguar seems to be the only one thats saying anything that has some sense in it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×